Author Topic: Safety in Private sector versus Public  (Read 3622 times)

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Offline RobertBruce

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Safety in Private sector versus Public
« on: February 03, 2007, 09:43:59 PM »
So it begins......
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Offline RobertBruce

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Safety in Private sector versus Public
« Reply #1 on: February 03, 2007, 09:47:20 PM »
A topic of recent conversation has concerned where are kids safer? The public schools/sector or the private theraputic sector?

Here's how the numbers break down in comparrison:

Out of 52,000,000 public school kids 16 were killed in school

Translating to 1 out of every 3,250,000 kids being killed.

Out of those 52,000,000 6 committed suicide while in school.

Translating to 1 out of 8,666,667 kids killing themselves.

Of those same 52,000,000 kids 2140 were killed outside of school.

Translating to 1 out of every 24,300 kids being killed.

Of those same 52,000,000 public school kids 1928 kids committed suicide outside of school.

Translating to roughly 1 out of every 27,000 kids committing suicide.

Out of 30,000 kids in the private theraputic sector so far we have 7 who were killed by staff members.

Translating to 1 out of every 4,286 kids being murdered by staff.

Of those same 30,000 kids 2 committed suicide.

Translating to 1 out of every 15,000 committing suicide.

This is of course for only one year June of 1999-July 2000

Based on these numbers we can easily see that the odds are higher a kid will die in the private theraputic sector over that of a public school or simply the public sector.
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Offline Anonymous

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Safety in Private sector versus Public
« Reply #2 on: February 03, 2007, 09:53:38 PM »
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Offline RobertBruce

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« Reply #3 on: February 03, 2007, 09:58:39 PM »
Here's what TheWho would have you believe:

July 1, 1999 thru June 2000
School aged children

Outside a TBS:
There where 2,140 Homicides and 1,928 suicides
Inside a TBS
There where 0 Homicides and 2 suicides

There's a couple of problems with his data though that he so far has refused to recognize.


1.   The NCES which is where Cindy (TheWho) got his information broke down the deaths between those committed in school (public) and those committed outside of school.

2.  He refuses to look at any place other than his definition of a TBS, places like ASR and HLA. Now kids are dying in these places every year, Cindy however feels they don't count. I disagree.

3.  He doesn't want to include any deaths that did not result in a conviction of murder even if it was. Cindy firmly believes (as do many in the PTS) that if you can get away with something, then its fine. I fail to see why it matters as the kids are still dead regardless, and they died at someone elses hand. Accident or not.

4. He claims that Judges have ruled that none of the afore mentioned kids were murdered not understanding many of the deaths in these places are never properly handled by the authorities as companies in the PTS prefer to brush these deaths under the rug. Cindy advocates the same policy.

5.  Cindy refuses to answer questions regarding what would happen to the average person in the public sector should a child in their care die in the same manner as these kids did. He does so because the answer paints him into a corner.
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Offline RobertBruce

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« Reply #4 on: February 04, 2007, 12:27:17 PM »
TheWho wrote:
Just for my own records, I thought I would move on and start collecting data for the next year. Which will be July1, 2000 thru June 2001.

Here is how it looks to start:

Remember this applies only to TBS?s (not group homes and hospitals etc.)

So I am simple comparing a child?s safety at a TBS (24 hours per day) vs not being at a TBS (24 hours per day)
We have this data:

July 1, 2000 thru June 2001
Outside a TBS:
There where 2,059 Homicides and 1,890 suicides
Inside a TBS
There where 0 Homicides and 0 suicides. (no data collected yet for TBS?s)


First cite your sources for your numbers, not that we don't trust you but you are a liar. Second explain why you only want to include deaths in your definition of a TBS. Not that it matters because we are counting the entire PTS.
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Offline RobertBruce

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« Reply #5 on: February 04, 2007, 12:35:57 PM »
Here's an interesting one.

Carlton Eugene Thomas

 
17 years old
5/14/2001

Edgemeade-Raymond A. Rogers Jr. School  Restraints

I won't count this as a death in the PTS because it was a public school-albeit one for boys with emotional problems.

The interesting thing about it is that his death was ruled as a homicide and charges were filed. Further proof that regulation in this industry would lead to better oversight and make these places safer for the kids, or at the very least hold these killers respondsible.
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Offline RobertBruce

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« Reply #6 on: February 04, 2007, 12:42:23 PM »
Eddie Lee 15 years old

9/18/2000
 
Obsidian Trails Outdoor Program
 
Restrained, reported beaten

This program recieved a glowing review from Lon Woodbury.
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Offline RobertBruce

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« Reply #7 on: February 04, 2007, 12:45:16 PM »
Stephanie Duffield 16 years old

2/11/01

Shiloh Residential Treatment Center

Restraint
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Offline RobertBruce

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« Reply #8 on: February 04, 2007, 01:03:06 PM »
Quote


Tanner Wilson 11 years old

2/9/01
 
Gerard, Iowa Facility

Heart attack while being physically restrained

This one actually did result in a trial, the charges(child endagerment)  were later dismissed which lead to protests (I'll try and find the details). It also lead to the IPAS ( a child protective service) suing the facility to come in at any time to investigate charges of abuse or neglect. Gerard countered that neither the IPAS or the childrens parents had the right to look at the childrens records or investigate whether or not abuse had occured. Luckily common sense prevailed and the school lost.
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Offline RobertBruce

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« Reply #9 on: February 04, 2007, 02:08:05 PM »
Ryan Lewis 14

2/13/01

suicide

Allredge Academy

boy that was a bad week for the pts
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Offline RobertBruce

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« Reply #10 on: February 04, 2007, 02:11:20 PM »
15-year-old Arizona girl died May 27, 2001 after hiking with an Oregon-based wilderness therapy program (Catherine Freer program, same place they did Brat Camp) in the mountains north of Tonopah, Nev., a spokesman for the program confirmed.
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Offline RobertBruce

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« Reply #11 on: February 04, 2007, 02:24:54 PM »
June 2001 Anthony Haynes

American Buffalo Re-Enactors Association-a boot camp.

Combination of dehydration (being forced to stand in 111 degree heat at attention in a black uniform for hours on end) and then being drowned in a bathtub.

This one actually lead to the closer of the boot camp and jail time for the owner and untrained staff member who killed him.
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Offline Deborah

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Safety in Private sector versus Public
« Reply #12 on: February 04, 2007, 02:37:15 PM »
Quote from: ""RobertBruce""
Here's an interesting one.
Carlton Eugene Thomas
17 years old
5/14/2001
Edgemeade-Raymond A. Rogers Jr. School  Restraints

I won't count this as a death in the PTS because it was a public school-albeit one for boys with emotional problems.
The interesting thing about it is that his death was ruled as a homicide and charges were filed. Further proof that regulation in this industry would lead to better oversight and make these places safer for the kids, or at the very least hold these killers respondsible.


A 17-year-old residential student at a Prince George's County, Md., private school for troubled teenage boys has died after a scuffle with a faculty member who had tried to subdue him. Carlton Eugene Thomas, 17, was a student at Edgemeade-Raymond A. Rogers Jr. School since 1999. Washington Post.
Baltimore Sun.

The death of a Prince George's County student at a [non profit] school for emotionally disturbed boys in May has been ruled a homicide, county police said yesterday.
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gt;>>>>>>>>>>>>>><<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Hidden Lake Academy, after operating 12 years unlicensed will now be monitored by the state. Access information on the Federal Class Action lawsuit against HLA here: http://www.fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?t=17700

Offline RobertBruce

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« Reply #13 on: February 04, 2007, 02:52:25 PM »
Okay so far the numbers break down as follows:

In the public sector out of 52,000,000 kids 2059 were killed outside of school, roughly translating to:

1 out of every 25,255 kids being killed outside of school.

of those same 52,000,000 1,890 committed suicide outside of school.

Translating to roughly

1 out of every 27,513 kids committing suicide outside of school.

In the Private Theraputic Sector out of 30,000 kids 5 kids were killed by staff members, translating to:

1 out of every 6000 kids being killed by staff members.

Of those same 30,000 kids 1 committed suicide, translating to:

1 out of every 30,000 kids killing themselves.

While this appears to be an improvement over the previous year the odds are a kid is still more likely to be killed by a staff member in the private theraputic sector than he is on the streets, but slightly less likely to kill himself, slightly.  


Maybe it'll get better as we move along.
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Offline RobertBruce

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« Reply #14 on: February 04, 2007, 02:55:37 PM »
Quote
A 17-year-old residential student at a Prince George's County, Md., private school for troubled teenage boys has died after a scuffle with a faculty member who had tried to subdue him. Carlton Eugene Thomas, 17, was a student at Edgemeade-Raymond A. Rogers Jr. School since 1999. Washington Post.
Baltimore Sun.

The death of a Prince George's County student at a [non profit] school for emotionally disturbed boys in May has been ruled a homicide, county police said yesterday.
_________________


My mistake, thank you Deborah. So then that changes our total to 6 out of 30,000 changing the odds to 1 out of every 5000.

That's still a little better than the previous year.
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