The Carlbrook thread

[Charly]

Why would the kids be begging to leave?  Come on- What teen wants to be at a school where they don't have a cell phone, car, internet, girlfriend or boyfriend, malls, jeans, organized sports etc?   It's not a fun place compared to what they had at home.  They have to follow rules and there are consequences when they do not. Leaving the entire issue of whether the therapeutic model is abusive, it is still a place that has rules and enforces consequences.  This wasn't happening at home for these kids.  It was interesting that a lot of the girls found it a safe, nurturing place and many of the boys felt like they were in prison.

[psy]

Why would the kids be begging to leave?  Come on- What teen wants to be at a school where they don't have a cell phone, car, internet, girlfriend or boyfriend, malls, jeans, organized sports etc?   It's not a fun place compared to what they had at home.  They have to follow rules and there are consequences when they do not. Leaving the entire issue of whether the therapeutic model is abusive, it is still a place that has rules and enforces consequences.  This wasn't happening at home for these kids.  It was interesting that a lot of the girls found it a safe, nurturing place and many of the boys felt like they were in prison.

You make a valid point.  But was it necessary to remove many of these things to help the kids (eg: internet, cell phone, letters to girlfriends, organized sports...)

You might also want to ask your son if kids were decieved about rules by the school?

Were there things you felt were misrepresented to you regarding the type of therapy when you sent your son to Carlbrook?  What types of services did they claim to provide?  What did they?

If anything... i would recommend sending the Carlbrook<--->karen correspondance to your son and seeing if there are any innacuracies that he could point out.

[Anne Bonney]

http://www.ex-cult.org/bite.html


II. Information Control

1. Use of deception

      a. Deliberately holding back information
      b. Distorting information to make it acceptable
      c. Outright lying

2. Access to non-cult sources of information minimized or discouraged

      a. Books, articles, newspapers, magazines, TV, radio
      b. Critical information
      c. Former members
      d. Keep members so busy they don?t have time to think

3. Compartmentalization of information; Outsider vs. Insider doctrines

      a. Information is not freely accessible
      b. Information varies at different levels and missions within pyramid
      c. Leadership decides who "needs to know" what

4. Spying on other members is encouraged

      a. Pairing up with "buddy" system to monitor and control
      b. Reporting deviant thoughts, feelings, and actions to leadership

5. Extensive use of cult generated information and propaganda

      a. Newsletters, magazines, journals, audio tapes, videotapes, etc.
      b. Misquotations, statements taken out of context from non-cult sources

6. Unethical use of confession

      a. Information about "sins" used to abolish identity boundaries
      b. Past "sins" used to manipulate and control; no forgiveness or absolution

[Charly]

Anne- that adds nothing to this discussion.  

Psy- Nothing was really mis-represented to us regarding the therapy. We were given a pretty good summary of what would occur in terms of the number of groups per week and the amount of time he would spend with his therapist (called an Advisor). There wasn't a whole lot of written correspondence back and forth. While my son was there we communicated by email and phone. Before he was there we visited Carlbrook, met with students and staff, interviewed and were interviewed ourselves.  It was not at all certain that Carlbrook would accept our son.  He was very borderline.

I believe the removal of all the creature comforts mentioned was a good thing.  The things that DID work about the place would not have worked if cell phones, etc had been available to the kids.  There were no huge complaints about all that from the kids.  There was plenty to do and the days were pretty full, except for the weekends which could get boring.

[try another castle]

I'm with Anne on this. It seems quite relevant to me.

I spoke to him briefly a little while ago.
He said there were three group therapy sessions a week. There was rarely a specific topic. Someone would begin by saying, "There's something I would like to take about." It would go from there.

and from waaaay  back in the thread...

I think twice a week. Maybe 3 times. The groups were coed and I seem to recall that you could "call" someone to be in your group. So-if you wanted to confront someone or yell at them, you requested a group with them. This was awhile ago, but I think that's how it worked. Then the kid who was "invited" got to sit there and get shit.
There were some good staff who led better groups than others. My son particularly objected to one senior staff- he hated me and my son and took it out on my son.

Uh, Okay, RAP. Definitely.
Complete with "Rap request" ("calling" someone.) and "indictments" (confrontations). TSW addressed this, too. It's the CEDU model, fo' sho'.

I think I even remember you (charly) writing something about having to switch chairs to yell at someone in group, but I can't find it in this thread. Maybe I'm mistaking your post for someone else's.


Question 1: Were there workshops/propheets there? I've read through the thread, but I might have overlooked it. If so, has your son told you anything about them?

Question 2: Re: bioenergetics/running your anger. Did your son ever talk about having to scream at the ground? Hit things like cushions? This is yet another thing that I may have overlooked on this thread, but I haven't found anything addressing it so far.

[hanzomon4]

This sounds like being stuck in a 24hr high school.....
Were these sessions common, and how bad did they get?

[try another castle]

You think this sounds like high school?
How so?

[psy]

Anne- that adds nothing to this discussion.  

Psy- Nothing was really mis-represented to us regarding the therapy. We were given a pretty good summary of what would occur in terms of the number of groups per week and the amount of time he would spend with his therapist (called an Advisor).

This is significant.  Were the "Advisors" licenced?  My guess is no.  I would guess that carlbrook offers "therapy" on an individual basis (ie. special requests), and "emotional growth" to a group.  What's the difference?  Legality.  In order to call yourself a "therapist"/"psychologist" you have to be licenced in order to do it.  Many of these schools are as legalistic as possable about what services they provide... in an attempt to maximize their marketing value to parents... while still keeping within the technical boundaries of the law.

Is it possable the school referred to their advisers/counselors as therapists to you...  perhaps.. but most definately not publicly.  Thewebsite makes it look like a school almost 100%...  Is this sort of thing... honest... to represent a school as one thing, and provide another?

That is my problem with "emotional growth" or "personal development"... if it isn't therapy... what is it?

There wasn't a whole lot of written correspondence back and forth. While my son was there we communicated by email and phone. Before he was there we visited Carlbrook, met with students and staff, interviewed and were interviewed ourselves.  It was not at all certain that Carlbrook would accept our son.  He was very borderline.

I believe the removal of all the creature comforts mentioned was a good thing.  The things that DID work about the place would not have worked if cell phones, etc had been available to the kids.  There were no huge complaints about all that from the kids.

Not even from your son?  What did he complain about then... Surely the school must have had something in mind when the prepped you for "manipulation".

Ok... what things DID work in the place.. in your opinion, that couldn't have worked without such restrictions?

There was plenty to do and the days were pretty full, except for the weekends which could get boring.

They didn't have "weekend activities"?

[try another castle]

Even if there were licensed therapists, psy, there is always the possibility that they were kept "out of the loop" from the rest of the program, which is common. The fornits user formerCEDUtherapist has talked about that in the past. He/she had NO idea about what went on there.

However, I am speculating with Carlbrook, since I wasn't there. Although, IMO, it seems a lot like a CEDU clone to me, which is something I have always maintained.

Ok... what things DID work in the place.. in your opinion, that couldn't have worked without such restrictions?

That's my question as well. I know Karen said earlier in this thread that things helped her son despite the program, so it makes me wonder if what worked was being inappropriately attributed to the program to begin with.

Oh wait, here it is:

I believe Carlbrook served a purpose for my son and our family. Much of this success was simply due to a fortuitous combination of factors unrelated to the therapeutic structure of Carlbrook.

Now, to me, this doesn't make sense at all. If it wasn't Carlbrook, then what was it, and why are you crediting Carlbrook for it, Karen?

[hanzomon4]

You think this sounds like high school?
How so?

Intense peer pressure, forced in this case...
Being judged by a group of you peers, again it's forced, manufactured, and the dynamic is taken to extremes.

[psy]

Even if there were licensed therapists, psy, there is always the possibility that they were kept "out of the loop" from the rest of the program, which is common. The fornits user formerCEDUtherapist has talked about that in the past. He/she had NO idea about what went on there.

Same where i was.  Once a week at the shrink's office...  Although i have my doubts as to how much he actually knew...  He had to know.... But i said the same thing about my parents and it was wrong...  So maybe he was just an incredibly stupid therapist.

Asshole wrote a horrendous review of me.  It was not consistent with previous evaluations or those taken after Benchmark...  which makes me think the program had a lot of input into what he wrote.  (He did communicate with the program a lot (they did give him reviews)).

Fucker told my parents that on my own I would end up in the bath-houses of San-Fransisco...  And i didn't even have sex in program!... and only a few times (1female, 1 male) before that.  I hope he gets hit by a truck or something...  unless he was ignorant of course... in which case I hope Jayne (program director) gets hit by a truck....  well I wish that anyway...

What the program told him?  I will never know.

I believe Carlbrook served a purpose for my son and our family. Much of this success was simply due to a fortuitous combination of factors unrelated to the therapeutic structure of Carlbrook.

Now, to me, this doesn't make sense at all. If it wasn't Carlbrook, then what was it, and why are you crediting Carlbrook for it, Karen?

A piece of paper i'm guessing...  You mentioned before, Karen that his improvement was mainly due to his introspection during his solitary confinement later on.

enough commentary...  i don't want to add any more questions before you get the previous ones answered anyway.

Night night.

[psy]

whoops... double post..

[Charly]

I know this is a fine distinction, but I am not crediting the Carlbrook PROGRAM with helping my son. I am crediting his time away from home (and 2N wilderness), the opportunity to think, write and reflect on where he wanted to go with his life and how he had gotten off track, the opportunity to live in a close community and make close friends without the relationships being based on competition, social factors or thrill-seeking, and a good therapist.
The therapists were degreed and many were licensed.  My son's was a licensed psychologist and he was very involved with the kids day in and day out.  All the advisors were.  

Our son could write to us (he didn't usually because he was mad at us), he could ask for an email to be sent to us, he could call us every other week and his therapist was very good about conveying messages to us about what he wanted us to send or what he wanted to tell us (our son conveyed that this was done in every instance).  Parents could send treats for the group for a birthday or holiday.  

It IS CEDU based- no question about that.  However, it sounds to me like a lot of the CEDU workshops were softened.  They slept, were well fed, and overall I don't think they were as confrontational.

[Charly]

Re: the moving of seats in the groups.  It wasn't just for yelling at someone.  It was for addressing them at all.  In the family groups we had, it a kid wanted to address their parent, they moved across the circle.

[Deborah]

The therapists were degreed and many were licensed.  My son's was a licensed psychologist and he was very involved with the kids day in and day out.  All the advisors were.

Did you personally confirm this, or take their word for it? HLA claimed the same, but when we checked we found that only one was licensed, and the majority of the teachers weren't certified.  

Our son could write to us (he didn't usually because he was mad at us), he could ask for an email to be sent to us, he could call us every other week

Once every two weeks? Blanket policy? How do you "rebuild a relationship/trust" during two brief phone calls per month? Were you ok with this? Fundamentally, legally, how does a 'boarding school' get away with limiting contact between kid and parent without a court order? Because the parent cooperates with their requirement. And why would the parent agree to this? What could possibly be gained, except that kids have less opportunity to report what's actually going on.

Parents could send treats for the group for a birthday or holiday.

How sweet and thoughtful. Are you sure the kids actually received them? I'm really surprised. What if a wayward parent spiked the brownies? Seems they'd have some kind of policy against that.  

It IS CEDU based- no question about that.  However, it sounds to me like a lot of the CEDU workshops were softened.  They slept, were well fed, and overall I don't think they were as confrontational.

Based on...?