The Carlbrook thread

[Charly]

Deborah might not find the credentials adequate.  I and the other parents did.  I got to know many of the staff members very well, due to the constant issues with my kid.  I feel I am in a good position to make the call whether they were good therapists and good with kids.  There were some who were not.  Most were excellent, qualified and caring.
The credentials are not hidden.  They are on the website and on information given to the parents.  If a parent doesn't feel the staff is qualified, there is no need for them to choose this program.

[Charly]

The education was fine.  It wasn't what my son was used to, and it wasn't what he wanted to finish out high school with, but it sure didn't hurt him any and he had some excellent teachers.  There were AP and Honors courses and the kids go on to excellent colleges.

I have explained why it worked for my son.  And, yes, we got our money's worth.  There were no options for our situation.

[Anne Bonney]

Yeah well, that's why you get called every name in the book around here.  You know[/i] what goes on in there.  You admit its abusive, or possibly so.  You admit to underqualification or unlicensing.  You admit the use of confrontational tactics.  AND THIS IS ALL OK WITH YOU.  You don't see any problems with this kind of an approach to "treating" kids.

What a self-centered, sadistic, bitch of a mother you must be.

 :roll:  :roll:  :rofl:  :rofl:  ::unhappy::  ::fuckoff::  ::both::  ::fuckoff::  ::both::  ::fuckoff::  ::unhappy::  ::both::  ::fuckoff::  ::unhappy::  ::fuckoff::  ::both::  ::unhappy::  ::both::

[Charly]

The names are mainly called by you, Anne. I really feel sorry for you and I have ever since I first started reading your posts.

I find Master's Degree staff very qualified.  I hadn't realized that you had met all the staff and were able to evaluate them!  Of course I should defer to your "expertise".  

Where is it I said abuse was OK with me?  I said if the CEDU model was not substantially changed, there could certainly be emotional abuse. Were kids restrained?  No.  Were they isolated?  No.  Were they beaten?  No.  Starved?  No.  They may have been subjected to confrontation that crossed the line into manipulation or abuse.  I am not saying that is OK and I am not supporting the program without information that this is NOT happening.

I'm saying that my son was not adversely affected.  I, personally, do not know of any kids who were.  Are there some?  Probably.

Anne, I'm sorry it's so hard for you to accept that this program might not hurt every kid.  It might have served a purpose for my son, due to the fortuituous circumstances I discussed earlier.  Why the anger?

[cooltherapy]

Guess this forum died a while ago... maybe someone is reading...

So, from time to time I look around online to see what people are saying about Carlbrook and it is SO interesting to me that it is always a bunch of people speculating what it was like... parents, anti-program folks... I graduated from the school over a year ago... so if you have questions I could answer them...

My life was turned around by this school but I have no reservations in exposing the abusive tactics and fucked up situations that I found myself in as a student.

So... fire away.

[Covergaard]

The main issue seems to be the education, but there are a few other points, that needs to be validated.

The template I am using on Fornits wiki (May be altered, if a better is made) is to be read here.

http://www.fornits.com/wiki/index.php/F ... ity_Portal

The carlbrook page is here: (I have done some reformatting, due to changes done last night.)

http://www.fornits.com/wiki/index.php/Carlbrook

Something could be better described (I am Danish and not so good at US-English. We are taught UK-English in Denmark).

A new thing seems to be the isolation room making the facility less softer and more like CEDU, they originated from.

But it could also be interesting to make a separate article about the request group, which are something they use in a lot of programs and of course a separete page about the workshops - a concept - which the now late Mr. Wasserman bought many years.

I can see that the editing on the page has changed the living conditions from small houses to trailers. How would you describe the sleeping quarters?

[try another castle]

My life was turned around by this school but I have no reservations in exposing the abusive tactics and fucked up situations that I found myself in as a student.

Do tell, I am actually very interested to hear from someone who graduated/left/was pulled/split from Carlbrook


I'm a bit nonplussed by your statement, though. It turned your life around, but you acknowledge that it was abusive and fucked up?

[cooltherapy]

I think that the main reason that I was helped at Carlbrook was because I was out of my old group of friends for so long that when I returned home, they had all disappeared or forgotten me. I also fell in love with another student... that probably was one of the main turnarounds for me.

I guess I didn't phrase myself correctly - the abusive tactics didn't help me; the aspects mentioned above seem to be what really changed things for me.

Carlbrook uses their students to enforce the rules - so in disobeying any rules, you are potentially "hurting" your friends. I have no idea how they got this chain of events started, but upon entering the school, older students befriend you and you feel guilty breaking rules. It is turned into a situation where it is no longer about authority, but about personal issues in relationships. There were many friendships that I could have had but didn't because of a difference in levels of conforming to these rules, or "standards".

This is why anything works there in the first place.

Carlbrook uses past experiences to break a person down to absolutely nothing, and then puts out a hand when he/she needs someone the most. This is the basis of workshops and groups.

People seem to think that these therapy sessions were far tamer than they are. I was in groups where students got so upset that they threw chairs, vomited, etc. Some were boring and we'd listen to people cry because their friend ate their last snickers bar, whatever. Others, people discussed histories with beastiality, rape, molestation, abuse... (people may be on both sides of the issues, obviously).

Small issues were over dramatized and large issues were sometimes so stunning that staff didn't even have a response.

I guess up until this point everything is okay - the part where I got thrown off was when the screaming/name calling began.

In the first workshop, Integritas, which was completed as early as two weeks after arriving to the school, a student is assigned a truth - a word that describes them fully... your truth may be passionate, it may be honest... the staff pick these words beforehand but lead the students in the direction so that they "pick their own." That evening, however, each student is given a lie. Older students come into this group - I witnessed students skipping over to the workshop room, laughing in anticipation... the group is basically a scream fest. The lights are dimmed, all staff and older students stand around the outside of a circle where the Integritas folks are sitting. Each student is focused on for anywhere from 15 minutes to an hour - they are broken down, screamed at, picked on... Staff made horribly inappropriate comments based on each student's "life story." I was too busy crying to hear most of my feedback, that evening. I must have been under the spotlight for 30 minutes or so. I was told that I belonged in a sewer. Generally you were lucky to return to your beds by 3am.

The next morning, we rose at 8am and returned to the room and were embraced with music and love from the same staff members who had screamed the evening before. I forgave the staff member who told me that I was a sewer rat that morning because he was the first person to hug me after I was given my lie. (Lies could be heartless-bitch, abuser, pitiful, ghost, etc.)

If people are interested I will tell about the other workshops - keep in mind that this is the first one (for some reason loved by most students in the end) and they get tougher each time around...

(Amicitia was run by an incredibly talented woman and seemed to be far better than any of the others)

Anywho, this may or may not sound abusive to you, but when I was sitting in the dimmed room receiving my lie, I wanted to die. I feel that I received NOTHING useful from that evening and I saw a first glimpse of the hidden rage that some of the staff members use against the students.

I guess it sounds like I was a "bad" kid at the school but really was considered to be a successful student. I would rather keep my identity private so I won't go into the positions that I held, however.

[hanzomon4]

Dude read psy's benchmark site

*Looks for link*

Got it, this part of his site talks about these seminars. It starts at Friendship Workshop

[try another castle]

Carlbrook uses past experiences to break a person down to absolutely nothing, and then puts out a hand when he/she needs someone the most. This is the basis of workshops and groups.

Couldn't have said it better myself.

I know the integritas workshop quite well. Where I came from, it was called The Truth propheet. I had to go through it twice.

I think my lie the first time was "liar", but the second time... oh, that was a beaut... it was "cripple".

I don't know if Tim Brace is still there, but he used to be my headmaster... at Rocky Mountain Academy. One of the CEDU schools. Your school is a bastard child/clone of where I was, as is Benchmark, Monarch and Cascade (before it got shut down). There are more, but those are the ones that were started by CEDU expats that come to mind right now.

CEDU was the grandaddy that fostered all of these mutants. And CEDU's old man was the cult Synanon.

Programmies have come on here and said that Carlbrook was nothing like CEDU, and I always had a difficult time  believing them, because I knew how effective CEDU was at appearing innocuous and like some fun happyland to outsiders who didn't go there. I knew better, and I knew it was only a matter of time before there would be students coming out of that place who were willing to talk about it.

Amicita? was that like the brother's keeper? (i.e. the one about friendship.) Oh god, that was an awful workshop for me.

Seriously, I would love to compare notes with you about this. I want to get a better understanding of this CEDU clone.

I am especially fascinated with language within insular communities and cultures, and how, despite the fact that the people within the community/sect/cult will speak the same language as someone who is not a part of that community, that language/lingo will also be completely unintelligible to those outsiders. It's part of what keeps those members isolated or feeling like they are a part of something special.

So... anyway... I am curious to know about the terms that were used there in daily life, and what similarities there are to CEDU. How the lingo has evolved/changed/developed.

If you have some spare time, I'd love it if you could check out my wiki entry on CEDU lingo, and see if any of those terms or definitions spark your memory.

It is by no means comprehensive. I still have a few more things I need to add to it.

Feel free to PM me if you need to. (You'll need a username for that.) Or... just continue the discussion in this thread.

Anywho, this may or may not sound abusive to you, but when I was sitting in the dimmed room receiving my lie, I wanted to die. I feel that I received NOTHING useful from that evening and I saw a first glimpse of the hidden rage that some of the staff members use against the students.

Yup. That sounds pretty abusive to me... and pretty fucking identical to what all of us went through who are victims of the emotionally corrosive CEDU legacy.

Welcome to being a survivor. And seriously, it is good to hear from you. You have some pretty fucking keen insight regarding your experience after being out only one year. Took me about three before I started understanding what had really happened.

Finally, we are hearing from Carlbrook people. Hallelujah!

[cooltherapy]

I'll respond to your lingo question - I'm just going to list the words I recognize and then add a few  

Older/Younger Students
Side Conversation
Let's Move On
Where y'at? (I later found a baby video of myself screaming this phrase... haunting, really)
Running Anger ('your' was cut out, apparently)
Thinking
In your shit
Peer Group
Teams
Big/Little Brother/Sister
Smooshing (yeck)
Going Fast
Safety
Crews
Last Light (no first light, for us)
Dyads
Projecting
Bioenergetics
Games



Bans - you mentioned these but they weren't on your list.
Disclosures - similar to your scum
Standards - our rules
Out of Standard - when someone is breaking a rule they are "out of standard" this was the most common term around campus
Honor List - like your dirt list
Holding Someone in Standard
"Plum, Square, and Level"
"Walking the road" - there is a long road at Carlbrook that leads into town - when a student decides to leave, they generally just take a stroll down the road until they are picked up and escorted back to the wilderness program "the woods"
Suspension - sitting in a room, looking straight ahead (sometimes you are able to attend class, sometimes not) from 8am to 10pm everyday. You may not speak other than to ask to use the restroom or get water. All movements, comments, or any other issues are written down by moniters and turned into the head of the school.
Program - lesser form of suspension
Action Plan - I guess this is the lightest form of punishment, bans with many students, writing assignments, no fun time
Stump - a tree is cut down and a very out of standard student is given a shovel and is made to dig the stump out of the ground


Interesting that you should mention Tim Brace... what did you think of him? He's still there...

I think the reason that you're not hearing from more Carlbrook students is because of the "bond" that they feel with the staff. By coming onto the websites and stating information, they are essentially backstabbing. I imagine that at some point I will identify myself but only having been out for a year, I am not ready to be "disowned" by the community. Sadly, this has happened with a few students.

[try another castle]

bans is on the list. it's easy to miss, because I didn't alphabetize it, instead trying to keep them categorically close together.

http://fornits.com/wiki/index.php/CEDU_lingo#Bans

we had disclosures, too. That was the primary term, I believe. The only reason I remember scum is because I read it in my full-time journal.

standards=agreements
out of standard=out of agreement
holding someone in standard = pulling them up

I love how these terms change between the clones, as if they are afraid someone is going to catch on to how incredibly full of shit they are.

As for Tim? I thought he was an idiot. I "learned" to like him, via stockholm syndrome, I suppose, but my first impression of him was that he was a melodramatic tweaked-out freak with the social skills of a retarded monkey fetus.

I remember the first monday house meeting I went to, I couldn't stand him from the get go. He mentions something about his wife, and says "That's the woman I'm fucking, and you're not." Which everyone thought was so hysterical, but I just kind of thought was lame.

There were lots of different kinds of staff at CEDU. There were the heavies, like Caroline and Sharon, who were just absolutely brutal. Then you had  wannabe heavies and hippie rejects like Vicki Jones, weird, uncategorized, creepy man-children like Joe Sweeney, general dickheads like Randy Eide, Patrick Stambusky (he started monarch), Steve Rookey (also now at monarch), and Bruce Wilson, and then you had these kind of loser milquetoast melodrama staff like Rea and Tim, who, for some reason, held a lot of sway at the school, but you never knew exactly why. Tim was known for being able to work everyone up into a weepy mess in the shortest amount of time, especially during warm-ups and raps.

I remember one warm up where they were playing that stupid song from an american tail, "somewhere out there" (and I was already a Bluth studios hater, and thought that movie sucked) and people were just sobbing like crazy. I remember him talking about the mouse, too. That was one warm up I definitely didn't cry in, even though I was totally brainwashed, simply because I hated that movie so much. (My animator side asserted itself, I suppose. "I don't care how brainwashed you are, this movie sucked, the story sucked, the characters sucked, and there is no way in hell you are going to cry to it.")

Seriously, did Bluth Studios ever do anything decent besides "The Secret of NIMH?"

I am not ready to be "disowned" by the community. Sadly, this has happened with a few students.

What community are you referring to? Is there a post-carlbrook community, or is it simply friends keeping in touch with one another?

[cooltherapy]

hehe - Tim is just the same... except... I would imagine probably not fucking his wife anymore. He isn't very nice to her!

Everyone LOVED Tim Brace but I had and still have absolutely no respect for the man. I have never hated anyone so much. It is impossible to put into words how I feel about him.

He is the headmaster at Carlbrook. He basically ignores the girls and is crazy over the boys. He picks his favorites and "smooshes" with them but it looks a little more like sexual tension building up in his life to me.

He is an evil man.

[cooltherapy]

Whoops - missed the end of your entry -

the community - ah... I have a few friends from the school but they wouldn't care - but if you turn your back on Carlbrook you are no longer allowed to write letters to current students, speak to staff, etc. They cut you off and basically pretend that you never went there. This recently happened to another graduate that I know...

they have instilled a new post-grad program in which one of the advisors calls you once a week to check up... for a year... yes, I'm serious - a year. Also, mandatory therapy once a week for... well forever I guess.

Not in therapy - but they don't have to know that.

[try another castle]

He is the headmaster at Carlbrook. He basically ignores the girls and is crazy over the boys.

You have no idea how right on you are about that. I had a few survivors confide in me about some rather inappropriate things Tim did with them... all male.

At RMA, Tim would apparently like to bring boys into his office for personal, private, one-on-one smooshing sessions. According to what one person told me, it never got illegal or blatant. Just really really fucking creepy, like smooshing always was.


Yeah, I'm not exactly sure what the whole Tim fan club thing was, either, cause we had it too. I honestly can't remember if I ever got on board with it. I suppose I grew to like him well enough. I knew I was kinda bummed when he left and Doug became headmaster. But my first impression of him, when my brain was the least clouded by the program, was that he seemed like one of those overzealous, idiotic camp counselors who had maybe half of the intelligence as an adult that I did at 16.

Whoops - missed the end of your entry -

the community - ah... I have a few friends from the school but they wouldn't care - but if you turn your back on Carlbrook you are no longer allowed to write letters to current students, speak to staff, etc. They cut you off and basically pretend that you never went there. This recently happened to another graduate that I know...

they have instilled a new post-grad program in which one of the advisors calls you once a week to check up... for a year... yes, I'm serious - a year. Also, mandatory therapy once a week for... well forever I guess.

Not in therapy - but they don't have to know that.

That's fucking hideous.

I suppose if I were you, I would probably write one final letter to your friends still at Carlbrook, before any potential "disownage" happens, and have it say something like "See you on the outside. It's much brighter here." Include your most up-to-date contact information, say fuck it. Wash  your hands of the whole thing, move on, and if they contact you when they get out, groovy. Worse comes to worse, you can track down their parents.

As for not being able to speak to staff.... ppppfffffff. Is that a threat or a promise?