Author Topic: Majestic Ranch info please  (Read 8776 times)

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Offline AtomicAnt

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« Reply #45 on: June 03, 2006, 10:48:00 PM »
Quote
I urge you to go see for yourself, if you're in need of a cause. Your niece does not belong at MR, but you probably know very little about the kids who really need a place to go in order to heal from addiction. These schools provide an essential service that is lacking in most places. Most are doing a spectacular job of saving families. Don't believe me . . . GET OFF YOUR COMPUTER AND GO SEE FOR YOURSELF.


See what I mean about an answer for anything?

You can pick up the yellow pages for pretty much any community in the USA and find drug rehab programs that do not require handcuffs, cutting off contact with parents, and living far from home. This poster is quite simply lying.

You name the affliction and these guys claim they can cure it. They list everything from ADHD and depression, to lack of respect for parents and dressing funny. In some cases, they claim they can cure homosexuality. No, I'm not kidding. They can solve all the world's problems and all you have to do is willingly hand over your child to them, no questions asked and no contact or interference allowed, so they can work their secret magic and return to you the child you wish you had.

And just like the Nigerian bank account Internet scam, thousands of people fall for this.
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Offline Oz girl

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« Reply #46 on: June 04, 2006, 09:13:00 AM »
Hi Again
My niece arrives Friday. Yay. I have spent most of my time this last week trying to find out as much about the whole industry as possible. I have a few questions for those familiar with the vernacular of the industry so that I am armed with good info when i see my brother
1. What is Hazing-a cheryl sudweeks was charged with it according to the isaccorp site
2. Why is it in utah (it seems this is the home of a lot of facilites) there is a debate about whether a place is therapudic or a normal boarding school? Is there a different minimum standard of care?
3. What exactly is the American definition of a therapist. Are you a psycologist or a psychiatrist or just a social worker?
4. A lot of the kids on the fornits sites describe being "taken down" for various infringements. Is this some sort of beating?
5. It seems in some states religious schools are not made to hold the same regualtions as other schools. Do they have their own governing body.
In Australia Catholic schools have a separate governing body but they still have to follow the same minimum stnadards of curriculum and duty of care as all other schools. It seems in the US it is different? does anyone know how?
Cheers
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n case you\'re worried about what\'s going to become of the younger generation, it\'s going to grow up and start worrying about the younger generation.-Roger Allen

Offline Deborah

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« Reply #47 on: June 04, 2006, 12:50:00 PM »
You forgot one TSW.
11. Utah is the Prozac capital of the US. Why so much depression?

One reason Utah is popular is that the Licensing authorities support programs. There are articles advocating programs posted at their site, written by a woman who is responsible for monitoring the programs. Utah, generally speaking, has decent regulations for programs, as regs go. The problem is in enforcement. The director has let his "fellow mormon saints" off the hook on numerous ocassions- at least once this resulted in a death of a teen, due to medical neglect.

In another incident of death, they investigated and found NO violations of regulations. When the DA pressed charges, they went back out and found "four"- all minor. I read the state regs and based solely on newpaper articles and sworn testimony came up with over 20 violations. I followed this case closely because the boy was my 14 year old neighbor whose mother ignored my warnings.

Another advantage to Utah is it's remoteness and that Wilderness programs don't have to purchase land. They march kids through land owned by the BLM- Bureau of Land Management.

Religious schools are exempt from regulations.
Religious programs are too.
A grave oversight, as many forms of abuse are carried out in them. My friend's grandson was molested in a religious program. No, to my knowledge they don't have a governing body. My guess, is that it is assumed that they are 'godly' people and wouldn't abuse kids. Nothing could be further from the truth. I think it used to be too, that many religous programs were for 'charity', which is becoming less the case. There's big money to be made in warehousing kids. Their mantra is "spare the rod, spoil the child". You can search "Roloff" and read about how one religious program in Texas fought to keep the state out of their affairs.

Some states have no regulations at all. Programs tend to gravitate to 'friendly' states and rural areas that will welcome the influx of money the programs bring.

There are some very good articles archived here that show the ills of behavior modification and discourge the aggregation of distressed teens. You might print those to give to your brother.

PS- Next to medical neglect, the number one killer of teens in programs is Restraint. A precedent was set in Texas recently when a high powered lawyer was hired to refute the coroner's report. He hire his own coroner who coined the term "excited delirium" - in other words, the kid was responsible for his own death. Restraint is even used in programs that state that they use de-escalation techniques instead of restraint. The truth is, many times you've got young, inexperienced males, ex-military, or religious zealots working with kids and when
push comes to shove, restraint will be used. It is also used for intimidation, as you may well have assumed.

Many of the "counselors" have no credentials. The programs use of the word is deceptive. In most states it is considered a professional title and illegal to use without proper credentials. Most programs, and many state regs, only require the direct care staff to be 19 years old, sometimes only a year or two older than their charges. They usually have a brief training provided by the program, and no background working with distressed teens.

110+ deaths in programs. Should 'therapy' include the risk of death?

Good luck!!

[ This Message was edited by: Deborah on 2006-06-04 10:04 ]
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gt;>>>>>>>>>>>>>><<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Hidden Lake Academy, after operating 12 years unlicensed will now be monitored by the state. Access information on the Federal Class Action lawsuit against HLA here: http://www.fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?t=17700

Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #48 on: June 04, 2006, 01:28:00 PM »
Um .. how long did it take Utah to prosecute polygamists?
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Offline AtomicAnt

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« Reply #49 on: June 04, 2006, 02:49:00 PM »
Two things for TSW's post:
 
1. If you want number five:
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/06/04/washi ... ref=slogin

2. In most States, counselors and even psychologists cannot prescribe, change, or dispense medications. You can have a PHD in psychology and still cannot mess with meds. You must have an MD to do this. In other words, you must be a psychiatrist. In NJ, where my ex is a board certifified psychiatrist, psychologists refer patients to her when they feel medication might be warranted.
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Offline AtomicAnt

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« Reply #50 on: June 04, 2006, 03:42:00 PM »
Quote
On 2006-06-04 06:13:00, Pls help wrote:

"Hi Again

3. What exactly is the American definition of a therapist. Are you a psycologist or a psychiatrist or just a social worker?
Quote
On 2006-06-04 06:13:00, Pls help wrote:

"Hi Again

3. What exactly is the American definition of a therapist. Are you a psychologist or a psychiatrist or just a social worker?

In the USA there is a division between what the Federal Government has jurisdiction over and what belongs to the States. Generally, issues involving the Constitution are within the jurisdiction of the Federal Government. Much of USA Federal law is based on the concept that the Federal Government can regulate trade between the States and Internationally.

That said, you will find laws vary drastically between States. For example, in Ohio and Pennsylvania you cannot provide therapy unless you hold a PHD (doctorate degree - the highest post graduate degree offered) in psychology or you are a psychiatrist. In New Jersey, you can be a 'counselor' with an MSW (Master's degree in Social Work). In most States, only psychiatrists can prescribe medications. To be a psychiatrist, you first must be a licensed MD (Medical Doctor). Psychiatry is a medical specialization much like internal medicine, surgery, or anesthesiology. The highest accreditation for doctors is to be 'Board Certified' for the specific specialization.

In general, prestige runs from lessor to greater: MSW, PHD, MD (Psychiatrist). Compensation also follows this with PHDs in psychology charging slightly over 100 US dollars per hour and psychiatrists charging 150 to 200 US dollars per hour. Therapy is expensive. Often, medical insurance only covers a very small portion by limiting what constitutes an acceptable diagnosis, the number of visits, and restricting the patient to the use of MSW level providers. Insurance companies generally require both a diagnosis and a treatment plan before approving coverage. They then approve a limited number of visits or sessions, after which the therapy provider must give progress reports and justification for further treatment to the insurance provider. Very few insurance companies will pay for these schools.

This lack of insurance is actually considered a plus by investors in these schools. Because the customer (parent) pays directly to the school, they avoid all the regulations, checks and balances, that are required by insurance companies and the laws that surround acceptable practices. For example, the law requires hospitals, clinics, and individual practitioners to have malpractice insurance in place. Insurance companies insist on this coverage and also insist that the provider is licensed to practice (medicine or therapy) by the State where they are working. It also speeds collections. Insurance companies often make partial payments based on approving only some procedures and treatments. Insurance companies also have maximum limits for services, above which the patient/customer is responsible to pay.

These schools often use technicalities to avoid regulations by describing themselves differently to different groups or people. They call themselves 'boarding schools' to avoid the legal restrictions under which therapy providers must operate. They call themselves 'residential treatment centers' to avoid State requirements under which academic schools must operate. In some States, these facilities only need a 'business license' to operate and there are no regulations governing their conduct.

Because these facilities are private, they cannot be visited or investigated by government agencies (child protection agencies, police on all levels, medical licensing boards, state inspectors) unless a complaint is filed against them and that State's Attorney General feels the allegation has merit and gets a search warrant from a Judge. The warrant must state exactly what and who the authorities are looking for when they visit. These schools contribute large sums of money in the form of political donations to local police and the attorney general as well as State Legislatures. This ensures they are looked on kindly by these law makers and enforcers. In some cases (notably Florida) police or former police are counted among the owners and employees of these schools. It must be stated that law enforcement and judges often approve of what these schools are doing.

It is difficult to prove cases of abuse because often there are no witnesses and the word of the accuser is discredited by the very fact that they were sent to one of these facilities. Also, in the USA, minors cannot file lawsuits. They require an adult to file on their behalf and their parents won't do this because they; 1. are the people that sent the kid there, and/or 2. would be exposing themselves to charges of neglect since they are legally responsible for their child's safety. Thus the few lawsuits filed are generally based on business laws (misleading advertising, fraud, breach of conduct). These lawsuits can only result in fines and monetary restitution to the victim. They are civil, but not criminal charges. Most are settled 'out of court' avoiding the bad publicity associated with going to trial and allowing the facility to pay off the victim without admitting any guilt. That said, once your read Help at Any Cost you will read of one successful lawsuit in New Jersey based on medical malpractice.

Finally, it must also be mentioned that these programs often send the teen out of their home State or even overseas. They are now under the jurisdiction of the laws of the State or country where the program resides that applies, not the teen's home State. When it comes to custody issues, like yours, this makes things very complex because in principle States say they will honor the custody, visitation, and child support rulings of the home State, in practice they often do not. Thus there are cases where the opposing parent is denied access to their own child which is technically illegal, but so difficult to resolve between the States that the child can end up completing the program before the Courts can enforce the parent's custody/visitation rights.

Thus you can see that this industry is a slippery animal tacitly approved by the State and as such is difficult to assail through legal means.[ This Message was edited by: AtomicAnt on 2006-06-04 12:43 ]
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #51 on: June 04, 2006, 06:52:00 PM »
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On 2006-06-04 06:13:00, Pls help wrote:....4. A lot of the kids on the fornits sites describe being "taken down" for various infringements. Is this some sort of beating?

5. It seems in some states religious schools are not made to hold the same regualtions as other schools. Do they have their own governing body.

In Australia Catholic schools have a separate governing body but they still have to follow the same minimum stnadards of curriculum and duty of care as all other schools. It seems in the US it is different? does anyone know how?

Cheers



"


4.  When I refer to having seen others "taken down" at a WWASP program I spent 2 years at, I mean that they are tackled, sat on, and usually an arm is twisted.  This is never done when the child is going to harm themself or another, just to make a point or harm someone who has talked back.  Usually two or three staff will continue sitting on the kid, taunting them, until they finally agree to say whatever the staff want to hear or they are dragged into a locked isolation room for several hours or days.  This is not legal in America, period.

5.  IEPs are completely ignored at WWASP programs.  Those are the plans we have for students who have disabilities and are in special education in our country.  It is very illegal not to hold IEP meetings and not to carry out the provisions included and work towards the goals contained within an IEP, but WWASP doesn't care.  This is one reason that I am certain your niece would be educationally neglected even more than most at Majestic Ranch.

Not just schools, but all American institutions, are not legally permitted to violate basic human rights of children.  Because these programs are run by extended family members and they are operated as for-profit locked prisons, they are able to get away with what they do.  They simply told our parents that we are all liars.  

You've done your web research, Kudos!  I'm sure you've found the thousands of us online with traumatic experiences to share, as we hope to educate people such as yourself who can still make a different choice for the child in your life.
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Offline Oz girl

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« Reply #52 on: June 05, 2006, 07:52:00 AM »
Thank you everyone for your amusing and enlightening responses. This is an issue which has gripped me completely.

Is this a bush initiative? Without meaning to offend anyone here, Why would anybody vote for Bush! I am beginning to see what the ned flanders character on the Simpsons is all about! You guys brought the world Ice hockey & keg parties, f scott fitzgerald & jazz. Surely you can do better than bush!

I have always been all for religious freedom but how  does having a school with "religous values" make you above the law? What does this teach kids? That Jesus believes in ass whompings!!!!!

Most other Western countries have Private religious schools where the state & church agree that they can teach kids any crazy idea that they want but they are still subject to enforceable child protection laws & must porvide a minimum standard of curriculum & contain only fully qualified teachers. The nuns taught me of the best excuse for teen pregnancy ever "no mum it really is the son of god"  :lol: but they still were not allowed to cut kids off from their family and voilently abuse them!
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n case you\'re worried about what\'s going to become of the younger generation, it\'s going to grow up and start worrying about the younger generation.-Roger Allen

Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #53 on: June 05, 2006, 11:17:00 AM »
What exactly did you find "amusing" lady?
We are talking about what? A ten year old little girl here? Take your Bush-bashing elsewhere, and use your energy to try to keep this CHILD out of a program.
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #54 on: June 05, 2006, 12:54:00 PM »
For your information, not too many people did vote for Bush...he stole the presidency twice.  They guys that make the voting  machines are Bush supporters. The thought that anyone could actually vote for him, especially for a second term is highly offensive.  We are rapidly losing our rights over here and your neice is better off in Australia.  At least when Bush finally crowns himself king she will be out of his reach.  Also the main supporters of these abusive schools contribute billions to Bush.  If they voted for him it is because they want to be part of the inner circle and be rich and important, same old sad story thoughout history.  Greed Greed Greed.  Oh and to be part of the "elite" that is guaranteed a place in heaven.  Sick. :roll:  :roll:
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Offline Oz girl

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« Reply #55 on: June 05, 2006, 04:51:00 PM »
Ok apologies. i did not mean to offend. of course i take this issue seriously. I was more commenting generally not specifically to my own situation. Really I did not mean to belittle anyones experience of these places
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n case you\'re worried about what\'s going to become of the younger generation, it\'s going to grow up and start worrying about the younger generation.-Roger Allen

Offline Oz girl

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« Reply #56 on: June 05, 2006, 05:02:00 PM »
ps if it is any consolation I hate my countries own bush loving pm & there was no corruption in the system everyone was just stupid enough to vote for him!
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #57 on: June 05, 2006, 05:19:00 PM »
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On 2006-06-03 19:48:00, AtomicAnt wrote:

"
Quote

 I urge you to go see for yourself, if you're in need of a cause. Your niece does not belong at MR, but you probably know very little about the kids who really need a place to go in order to heal from addiction. These schools provide an essential service that is lacking in most places. Most are doing a spectacular job of saving families. Don't believe me . . . GET OFF YOUR COMPUTER AND GO SEE FOR YOURSELF.




See what I mean about an answer for anything?



You can pick up the yellow pages for pretty much any community in the USA and find drug rehab programs that do not require handcuffs, cutting off contact with parents, and living far from home. This poster is quite simply lying.



You name the affliction and these guys claim they can cure it. They list everything from ADHD and depression, to lack of respect for parents and dressing funny. In some cases, they claim they can cure homosexuality. No, I'm not kidding. They can solve all the world's problems and all you have to do is willingly hand over your child to them, no questions asked and no contact or interference allowed, so they can work their secret magic and return to you the child you wish you had.



And just like the Nigerian bank account Internet scam, thousands of people fall for this."



http://www.worldtalkradio.com/archive.asp?aid=3261
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Offline AtomicAnt

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« Reply #58 on: June 05, 2006, 11:59:00 PM »
So what is your point with the radio link? I'm happy for little Mia. Gee, I guess I can add trauma from sexual abuse to the list of things these programs claim they can cure.

For every success story there is another story of harm done and no conclusions can be drawn from these.

Many on Fornit's say that programs give the illusion of success because the participant was 'brainwashed.' How about 'converted?' I have a few friends that drank and did drugs when they were young. They fit the description of kids who need programs. They found God instead. It straightened them right out. At least no one forced them to find God.

The religion thing isn't as much a cure as it is a delusion. But since the means justifies the end in the mind of the program supporter, I suppose they would say it doesn't matter as long as it works.

Religion or program, or maybe a religious program. Pick your mind fuck. Oh wait, the kids don't have a choice. They have to accept whatever mind fuck is chosen for them, and endure whatever torment the mind fuckers think is appropriate. Choice really isn't important here. Whether cult or program (same thing, really), salvation is far more important than the rights of the individual.

Both cult and program then parade out their converts and say, "Look at this poor wretch. We save his life. This person is an example of how right we are." The convert simply smiles and agrees.

The objectionable part is when they insist that everyone else must be forced to agree as well.
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #59 on: June 06, 2006, 04:04:00 PM »
Well said AA! :tup:
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