Author Topic: So what should I do  (Read 17158 times)

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Offline The Liger

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So what should I do
« Reply #75 on: May 03, 2006, 02:12:00 PM »
I still think the whole story is bullshit.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
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Offline CCM girl 1989

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« Reply #76 on: May 03, 2006, 02:29:00 PM »
Quote
On 2006-05-03 11:12:00, The Liger wrote:

"I still think the whole story is bullshit.
"


Yeah, me too.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
f you were never in a program, or a parent of a child in a program, then you have no business posting here.

Offline TheWho

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« Reply #77 on: May 03, 2006, 02:44:00 PM »
I think you missed my point.  It seems the great majority here believes the parents are to blame.  That the kids were just days away from a full scholarship at an ivy leagues school when they were plucked up, hand cuffed and sent off to prison for years and never knew why.  We read stories like the one above (which is more realistic than many others that are embraced here) and people believe it is bs because they can not give any advice except for the route that is inevitable which is placement outside the home, so its easy to say, aw it?s a bs story.

Bottom line is that we don?t know what the root cause of these teens becoming at risk.  They come from families which are good, bad and mediocre.  The teen suicide rate in this country is thru the roof and the majority feel the parents should sit back and do nothing.
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Offline Troll Control

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« Reply #78 on: May 03, 2006, 02:51:00 PM »
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The teen suicide rate in this country is thru the roof...

I think Deborah fully debunked this for you months ago with solid documentation that shows this statement is completely false.

She also provided the data that show that death rates from "programs" are manifold times higher than the average school-age population.

Quote
We have two issues we?re discussing.
1) Your and Marcus?s claims regarding an increase in suicides.
2) Your ongoing musings regarding whether programs are safer than public schools.

This is about as close as we?re going to get to an answer.

1 in 1 million DEATHS in public schools.
1 in 2, 308 DEATHS in programs. (based on 30,000 in programs)


Facts just don't matter to this guy.  Debate is fairly useless when it's grounded in contrived statements...

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-Arnold Schopenhauer[ This Message was edited by: Dysfunction Junction on 2006-05-03 11:55 ]
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Offline TheWho

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« Reply #79 on: May 03, 2006, 03:10:00 PM »
16,750 teens committed suicide between 1992 and 2000.

This cant be debunked they are NCES numbers not mine, take it up with them.

Almost 17,000 kids took their lives, you cant deny there is a problem, they came from all walks of life, cities and family environments
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Offline Troll Control

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« Reply #80 on: May 03, 2006, 03:14:00 PM »
And if you put them in a program, the death rate goes up 434 times.

I'll take my chances and avoid the programs.

One in one million vs. one in 2,300.  It ain't that hard to figure out, hoss.  Programs kill kids at 434 times the rate of the rest of society.
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Offline TheWho

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« Reply #81 on: May 03, 2006, 03:27:00 PM »
Quote
On 2006-05-03 12:14:00, Dysfunction Junction wrote:

"And if you put them in a program, the death rate goes up 434 times.



I'll take my chances and avoid the programs.



One in one million vs. one in 2,300.  It ain't that hard to figure out, hoss.  Programs kill kids at 434 times the rate of the rest of society.
"


Calm down DJ and get your facts straight:

Your population includes some kids who committed suicide after they returned home, not at school.  

Its not apples and apples.

Bottom line the suicide rate is high based on NCES studies and that is what parents are reacting to,  you have no data to support your position except for Deborahs list which is uncontrolled data.

Sorry DJ, I have to go with the facts and controlled studies.
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Offline TheWho

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« Reply #82 on: May 03, 2006, 03:38:00 PM »
DJ -- If you come up with a study or hard numbers which can support your position I will be willing to take a look and we can compare it to NCES studies, until then its just hype and fluff.

Sorry
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Offline TheWho

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« Reply #83 on: May 03, 2006, 03:41:00 PM »
Anyway,lets move on, there was no comparisons being made, here is what was said:

I think you missed my point. It seems the great majority here believes the parents are to blame. That the kids were just days away from a full scholarship at an ivy leagues school when they were plucked up, hand cuffed and sent off to prison for years and never knew why. We read stories like the one above (which is more realistic than many others that are embraced here) and people believe it is bs because they can not give any advice except for the route that is inevitable which is placement outside the home, so its easy to say, aw it?s a bs story.

Bottom line is that we don?t know what the root cause of these teens becoming at risk. They come from families which are good, bad and mediocre. The teen suicide rate in this country is thru the roof and the majority feel the parents should sit back and do nothing.



[ This Message was edited by: TheWho on 2006-05-03 12:42 ]
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Offline CCM girl 1989

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« Reply #84 on: May 03, 2006, 03:57:00 PM »
Quote
On 2006-05-03 12:41:00, TheWho wrote:

"Anyway,lets move on, there was no comparisons being made, here is what was said:



I think you missed my point. It seems the great majority here believes the parents are to blame. That the kids were just days away from a full scholarship at an ivy leagues school when they were plucked up, hand cuffed and sent off to prison for years and never knew why. We read stories like the one above (which is more realistic than many others that are embraced here) and people believe it is bs because they can not give any advice except for the route that is inevitable which is placement outside the home, so its easy to say, aw it?s a bs story.



Bottom line is that we don?t know what the root cause of these teens becoming at risk. They come from families which are good, bad and mediocre. The teen suicide rate in this country is thru the roof and the majority feel the parents should sit back and do nothing.







[ This Message was edited by: TheWho on 2006-05-03 12:42 ]"


I think you are missing my point. Had you been a good parent, your child could of had a chance at getting that college scholarship. Healthy intrests, and family fun, go a long way.

Since you weren't, for whatever reason a good parent (and btw you are not alone).......you have nobody to blame for your childrens problems but yourself.

It is pretty much all your fault. Bad parenting = troubled youth.

What can you do now? I don't know! We give you all kinds of info, and advise here for free! Figure out how to make it work for you. That's you job, not ours.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
f you were never in a program, or a parent of a child in a program, then you have no business posting here.

Offline TheWho

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« Reply #85 on: May 03, 2006, 04:25:00 PM »
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It is pretty much all your fault. Bad parenting = troubled youth.


I haven?t seen where this has been established or proven as root cause, one could insert any influence before the equal signs.  I have seen many families,some who have 3 children doing fine and a 4th becomes an at-risk child.  All being raised the same, your argument just doesn?t float.
I have seen parents who are horrible and their kids get scholarships, well adjusted ,happy etc.
There is just more going on than parenting stimuli, good or bad.

I agree, it would be nice to solve the problem before it becomes one by establishing root cause and impliment effective corrective action, but until we do find the cause all we can do is react and find ways to keep these kids safe and on course.  If training all the parents would accomplish this I would be the first to help, but there is no evidence that this would work, or a parenting style that would put a stop to these problems.
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #86 on: May 03, 2006, 04:25:00 PM »
CCM,

All the nurturing and family fun in the world doesn't work for some kids.  Most kids that wind up in programs are really bright and get that college scholarship anyway.  It's the smart ones, with big problems that get ignored, that become mediocre and angry when they grow up and realize what they could have had.  Guess who they blame?  They always blame the parents for not doing enough.  Bottom line: you can't win.
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #87 on: May 03, 2006, 04:29:00 PM »
Quote

I'll take my chances and avoid the programs.

"


DJ, are we expecting?  I was under the impression that you didn't have kids.
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Offline The Liger

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« Reply #88 on: May 03, 2006, 04:46:00 PM »
Quote
On 2006-05-03 12:41:00, TheWho wrote:

"Anyway,lets move on, there was no comparisons being made, here is what was said:



I think you missed my point. It seems the great majority here believes the parents are to blame. That the kids were just days away from a full scholarship at an ivy leagues school when they were plucked up, hand cuffed and sent off to prison for years and never knew why. We read stories like the one above (which is more realistic than many others that are embraced here) and people believe it is bs because they can not give any advice except for the route that is inevitable which is placement outside the home, so its easy to say, aw it?s a bs story.



Bottom line is that we don?t know what the root cause of these teens becoming at risk. They come from families which are good, bad and mediocre. The teen suicide rate in this country is thru the roof and the majority feel the parents should sit back and do nothing.







[ This Message was edited by: TheWho on 2006-05-03 12:42 ]"


I said the story was BS.  I don't recall saying anything about Ivy league colleges or anything else like that.  I didn't even say anything about any other story that I believe or not.  Why are you attributing anything else to me other than, "This story is BS"?  

No, I don't have any solutions for this bullshit story.  The windows are nailed shut and the mom sleeps in front of the door, and the "12-year-old" still gets out?  The police say no crime has been committed when clearly one has?  (Runaway and beyond parental control both come to mind.  My parents were fond of kicking me out of the house, then having me arrested for running away.)  Um, what else...oh, there are NO local resources...all types of therapy have been exhausted.  No, I don't know what to say about this.  But it doesn't fucking matter, because this is a story that would NEVER EVER happen.

This is the kind of story that only a program supporter would make up to freak people out of common sense.  The only 12-year-old girls at the program I went to were little girls who had uber-religious parents.  They were sent to the program for being defiant.  They had never done drugs or had sex.  (Curiously, several of them confided in me that their unber-religious fathers had molested them, and that their pissed off mothers sent them away for seducing them.)  We never had an actual "drug addict" come in to the program.  

Most girls there were from upper-middle class suburban families who were embarrassed because their kids walked around with pink hair and a pierced face.  A lot of them experimented with drugs, and a lot of them were not going to school.  I'm sure a lot of them were what they're parents might consider "promiscuous."  

My own parents considered sex outside of marriage to be promiscuous, even though both admittedly had done so themselves.  I had never had sex by the time I was sent away, never had a boyfriend, but I don't think they believed me.  They also considered drug experimentation to be a "detrimental lifestyle," even though both had done so when they were teenagers.  ("It was different back then.  It was the 60s.")

Anyway, I stick to my belief that this story was BS.  And I think it's hilarious how your deductive reasoning works, by the way.  It's totally illogical.
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #89 on: May 03, 2006, 04:48:00 PM »
The person who started this thread is laughing their ass off right now, I guarantee it.
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