son in WWASP program

[wwasp dad]

well i said i would post the outcome of a mtg i had yesterday with a midwest graduate, so here goes.  the guy i talked to graduated midwest 3 to 4 months ago and is getting along pretty good.  no, he is not a brainwashed program moonie or anything like that, i know most everyone here hates to see another point of view, (including personal attacks if i don't seem to quite agree w/ them).  he is VERY glad to be done w/ the program and back out in the real world. we talked for about an hour as he had to get going for a family easter thing.. he for sure doesn't think it is the be all and end all for troubled teens, but he's glad he went through it,  he thinks it saved his life---again does that mean he thinks it is the only possible answer for what he was going through(meth, heavy alcohol abuse, etc.)-HELL NO!!
  he's doing college courses and working, and has adjusted well to the outside world.. he's 18 now and still sees old friends(some of them--not the tweakers-which he considers to be a dead end to life), by the way the school's credits transfered fine, which means the place is accredited. when i asked about his view on the seminars, his answer was about like mine, pretty wierd..but he did get some useful help out of them(by the way, his mom "choose out" when she went through focus--saying it was all to nuts for her) i did get some eye rolls when we went in to some specific's of the program--my point being he is NOT a program moonie. so overall he thought it was a good experience for HIM..
  to answer a few of your questions in advance, this mtg. was not set up by the program, he is a   friend of a friends son.  when i showed him this forum i got alot more eye rolls, he did agree with  some of the points, but the physical abuse,(the hobbit, the hole, the pepper spray, restained and on your belly, etc) DOES NOT happen there.  he could not believe some of the posts on these type of topics--not to say they are lies--just that they don't happen there..
  anyway, my quest for more opinions and info continues-------i'll put on my armour now, so the attacks can begin, after all, this is a different point of view from most on this sight.........

       thanks for your time----wwasp dad

[emaree]

wow...you obviously have ignored most of our posts. i'm not surprised, most parents choose to believe only what is convinient for them.

point blank, if you leave your son there, you're a selfish fucking bastard.

don't be surprised when he tells you that himself. one years, two years, wonder how long it will take for him to realize it?

[Anonymous]

On 2006-04-17 07:51:00, wwasp dad wrote:

"     well i said i would post the outcome of a mtg i had yesterday with a midwest graduate, so here goes.  the guy i talked to graduated midwest 3 to 4 months ago and is getting along pretty good.  no, he is not a brainwashed program moonie or anything like that, i know most everyone here hates to see another point of view, (including personal attacks if i don't seem to quite agree w/ them).  he is VERY glad to be done w/ the program and back out in the real world. we talked for about an hour as he had to get going for a family easter thing.. he for sure doesn't think it is the be all and end all for troubled teens, but he's glad he went through it,  he thinks it saved his life---again does that mean he thinks it is the only possible answer for what he was going through(meth, heavy alcohol abuse, etc.)-HELL NO!!

  he's doing college courses and working, and has adjusted well to the outside world.. he's 18 now and still sees old friends(some of them--not the tweakers-which he considers to be a dead end to life), by the way the school's credits transfered fine, which means the place is accredited. when i asked about his view on the seminars, his answer was about like mine, pretty wierd..but he did get some useful help out of them(by the way, his mom "choose out" when she went through focus--saying it was all to nuts for her) i did get some eye rolls when we went in to some specific's of the program--my point being he is NOT a program moonie. so overall he thought it was a good experience for HIM..

  to answer a few of your questions in advance, this mtg. was not set up by the program, he is a   friend of a friends son.  when i showed him this forum i got alot more eye rolls, he did agree with  some of the points, but the physical abuse,(the hobbit, the hole, the pepper spray, restained and on your belly, etc) DOES NOT happen there.  he could not believe some of the posts on these type of topics--not to say they are lies--just that they don't happen there..

  anyway, my quest for more opinions and info continues-------i'll put on my armour now, so the attacks can begin, after all, this is a different point of view from most on this sight.........



       thanks for your time----wwasp dad   "

Dad, I'm glad you're at least open to talking to others but I think you're missing the main point here.  When you do the research into how these seminars and programs work you'll find that the very fundamentals of them are screwed from the start.  You can't change someone's behavior against their will without doing damage.  THAT is the point I'm trying to get across to you.  You can justify all you want with anecdotal stories from grads, parents etc but when you get right down to it their stories (and ours) are skewed by personal experience.  The scientific studies are not.  

Here are some interesting links.  Hope you read through them:

http://www.nih.gov/news/pr/oct2004/od-15.htm

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/quer ... t=Abstract

http://www.ex-cult.org/General/lifton-criteria

http://www.ex-cult.org/General/singer-conditions

http://www.ex-cult.org/bite.html

http://www.ex-cult.org/General/totalism-group-dynamics

http://www.nmha.org/children/justjuv/bootcamp.cfm

[Anonymous]

On 2006-04-15 11:50:00, Badpuppy wrote:

"Please explain dad whether you apporve of a facility the uses solitary confinement as punishment?

Uses emotionally disturbed children to punish other emotionally distubed children?

Violates you childs constitutional rights to communicate without censorship to his parents.

and then claims to teach accountability.

Provides no classroom instruction?

Advertises a private prison as though it were a luxury resort?

Uses seminar techniques mental health practicioners consider to be on the same leval as past life regression therapy, alien abduction therapy, rebirthing, and other forms of absolute quackery?

Search for the International Action Survivors Committee.

Ask could all of the hundreds of kids with abuse stories be lying?

I have two graduate degrees, one in a mental health field from an Ivy League university. You have lawsuits against the WWASP alleging, fraud, child endangerment, false impisonment, and negligent child care. These allegations are consistant and true. Lawyers face grave penalties if they file suits without merrit. Take your child out now!!! He needs to be in a mental hospital as much for what was done to him in the WWASP facility as for his meth use.  Please act immmediately.

[ This Message was edited by: Badpuppy on 2006-04-15 11:52 ]"

I can't help but wonder which of these is most ridiculous: the false statements about the programs (isolation, emotionally disturbed kids punishing other emotionally disturbed kids, censorship); the claim that lawyers face grave penalties for filing lawsuits without merit (remember the hot coffee at MacDonald's? Yeah, that lawyer keeps his grave penalties in his IRA account), or that Badpuppy has degrees?

 :lol:

[Anonymous]

I can't help but wonder which of these is most ridiculous: the false statements about the programs (isolation, emotionally disturbed kids punishing other emotionally disturbed kids, censorship); the claim that lawyers face grave penalties for filing lawsuits without merit (remember the hot coffee at MacDonald's? Yeah, that lawyer keeps his grave penalties in his IRA account), or that Badpuppy has degrees?

I will tell you what's ridiculous, this crazy program parent who trolls this forum called Karen is trolling this forum now because she's angry so much of her lies have been exposed. Isn't that ridiculous??!?!  :lol:  :lol:  :lol: I thought you'd agree, here go read some more about it
http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?to ... forum=37&7

[Anonymous]

On 2006-04-17 07:58:00, emaree wrote:

"wow...you obviously have ignored most of our posts. i'm not surprised, most parents choose to believe only what is convinient for them.



point blank, if you leave your son there, you're a selfish fucking bastard.



don't be surprised when he tells you that himself. one years, two years, wonder how long it will take for him to realize it?"

Yes, Dad,

Clearly your search for truth anywhere but in the sterling annals of Fornits shows you're a bad guy. Just change your signature to BadDad.

[Anonymous]

Yes, Dad,

Clearly your search for truth anywhere but in the sterling annals of Fornits shows you're a bad guy. Just change your signature to BadDad.

Awwww, Karen doesn't want to play in the Carlbrook thread anymore?  :wstupid:

[Anonymous]

On 2006-04-17 08:32:00, Anonymous wrote:


Yes, Dad,



Clearly your search for truth anywhere but in the sterling annals of Fornits shows you're a bad guy. Just change your signature to BadDad. "

Guess you missed this post.  

Dad, I'm glad you're at least open to talking to others but I think you're missing the main point here. When you do the research into how these seminars and programs work you'll find that the very fundamentals of them are screwed from the start. You can't change someone's behavior against their will without doing damage. THAT is the point I'm trying to get across to you. You can justify all you want with anecdotal stories from grads, parents etc but when you get right down to it their stories (and ours) are skewed by personal experience. The scientific studies are not.

Here are some interesting links. Hope you read through them:

http://www.nih.gov/news/pr/oct2004/od-15.htm

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/quer ... t=Abstract

http://www.ex-cult.org/General/lifton-criteria

http://www.ex-cult.org/General/singer-conditions

http://www.ex-cult.org/bite.html

http://www.ex-cult.org/General/totalism-group-dynamics

http://www.nmha.org/children/justjuv/bootcamp.cfm

Why do you people always jump on the easy targets?  Emaree is mad (with good reason) and her response while relevant, is easy to point at and say "see? they're all angry, nutty, disgruntled kids".  But you ignore the people who ARE trying to have sane, civil discussions.  It's much easier for you to justify sticking your head in the sand that way I guess.  Oh well, I'll keep trying.

[Anonymous]

It's Karen, pissed off at being revealed for the liar she is. Notice she contributes nothing to the conversation, she doen't know anything about WWASPS probably. She comes to troll, to satisfy her damaged psyche.

[Anonymous]

On 2006-04-17 08:26:00, Anonymous wrote:

I can't help but wonder which of these is most ridiculous: the false statements about the programs (isolation, emotionally disturbed kids punishing other emotionally disturbed kids, censorship);

You're shitting me, right?  Are you seriously trying to say that the above does NOT go on in WWASPS facilities?  Hell, it's Standard Operating Procedure.

[CCM girl 1989]

Dear WWASP Dad,

You say that the kid you spoke with is 18, and is taking college courses while working. Does he live at home with his parents? You say that he completed the program 3-4 months ago. It may take a while for him to relax, and get settled. Once he does, I am sure he will have some more thoughts on what he went through.

What area are you from? I don't need specific city or town. Which facility did this former student go to? Is it the same place your son is at? What brought you to fornits? I mean, who told you about it? How did you stumble upon it? Before I waste anymore of my time on you, I need you to be honest.

At this point in time, I have to say.....I smell a rat. Or I guess you might say, I smell a troll!!!! You guys over at WWASPS are getting much better with your stories. You start out being a concerned Dad, and wanting information.....then it's ending with you saying you've done some in depth investigation, and truely believing the program was a godsend, and that there is no truths to what we have told you.

This kind of crap is so typical of WWASPS. It's just another way of them trying to cover up what they are. Money grubbing whores.

[001010]

"False Statements?"

Wow... I'm giving up here. I like talking to rational people, not people who live in total denial of the TRUTH!

[wwasp dad]

first of all to answer a few of the questions, i am from the midwest area and i am not a wwasp troll,  whatever that is (i'm not really very good with the internet speak type stuff), and yes the young man i talked to went to the same school as my son...i really have picked up alot of good info here, mainly from links to other stuff( govt. studies, papers by independant groups etc.) i am seriously thinking of pulling my son after alot of what i've read.  i still believe there are 2 sides to every story, and i don't have to attack everything and everyone who disagrees w/ mine..again thanks to all who provided usefull info w/o the personal BS about how terrible i am and that i should rot in hell for possibly making a bad choice concerning a very troubled son.

     again, thanks for your time(the majority of you)-----wwasp dad

[Anonymous]

To WWASP dad- I am a WWASP graduate myself and would like to add one more opinion on this thread that the conditions being described do exist.  My own parents similarly bought the sales pitch.  It takes a lot to admit that you made a choice you want to take back.  The program will try to talk you out of it and make you meet with a million people and stall you.  They will probably also try to get your child to ask you if they can stay.  Many of us wish that we had parents willing to believe the stories of others and save us.

[Anonymous]

On 2006-04-17 10:58:00, wwasp dad wrote:

"  first of all to answer a few of the questions, i am from the midwest area and i am not a wwasp troll,  whatever that is (i'm not really very good with the internet speak type stuff), and yes the young man i talked to went to the same school as my son...i really have picked up alot of good info here, mainly from links to other stuff( govt. studies, papers by independant groups etc.) i am seriously thinking of pulling my son after alot of what i've read.  i still believe there are 2 sides to every story, and i don't have to attack everything and everyone who disagrees w/ mine..again thanks to all who provided usefull info w/o the personal BS about how terrible i am and that i should rot in hell for possibly making a bad choice concerning a very troubled son.



     again, thanks for your time(the majority of you)-----wwasp dad"

Please go back and re-read this entire thread.  There is a lot of useful info here, including from the ones attacking you.  I know it's not pleasant but understand where they're coming from.  Most of us have been through those hell-holes and have a very clear understanding of what happens and how.  Some of us went through places decades ago and are parents ourselves now so we understand the fear that parents go through in raising teens.

The more research and reading you do the more these places will give you the creeps.  I'm not saying they're all money grubbing asses (although a LOT of clearly are) some actually believe they're doing what's best for kids.  They're wrong, DEAD wrong.

I highly recommend picking up a copy of ?Help At Any Cost.  I think you'll find it enlightening.