Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform > The Seed Discussion Forum

F---ed

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marcwordsmith:
I mean, wherever they are, all those other former Seedlings, it doesn't seem that they've googled The Seed and found this site.

Or if they have, they haven't felt a need to join the conversation.

Anonymous:
Alot of folks don't feel the same way you do.

Did you go to catholic school?

Alot of people that went to catholic school hated it too.  Others thought the discipline was fine and accepted it.

What can I say.

I went to catholic school & the Seed and feel I benifited from both.

cleveland:
Marc,

I too feel the need to think and talk about the Seed quite a lot, after keeping it buried for many, many years.

Why?

I don't know. From this forum, I have had contact with eight or nine seedlings from my era. Without naming anyone, here's a tally:

1 - female, was a newcomer when I was an oldcomer. Posted a few times here, was ambivalent but mostly negative about the Seed. Currently married with children and owns a very successful business. We emailed a few times, but her career takes priority.

2 - male, was a staff member when I came in. Posts here, we've talked on the phone and emailed. I think he was initially shocked when I had anything negative to say about the Seed, because he is one who feels it saved his life. We're in touch - I think he's a great guy, and we agree to disagree.

3 - female, was an oldcomer before me at a nother Seed branch, moved to Ft. Lauderdale when I was there - posted here a bit. We emailed quite actively, and she had been a long-term Seedling, and kept up with a lot of people. She is pretty open to both positive and negative Seed aspects, and feels that the biggest flaw was that the Seed kids by and large did not have children, even after they married. She cut off contact because she felt that it was living in the past. Married with children.

4 - male, newcomer with my brother before me, posts here regularly. Very anti-Seed, was a staff 'side-kick' for a long while, left about the same time I did. He, like me, went on to become an artist. We email from time to time.

5 - male, long-term Seedling, currently an academic. Struggled to find an identity post-Seed, came to terms with being gay, which was something the Seed had trouble with. Posts here on occasion, we've spoken, he's aware of good and bad effects. Still close to some Seedlings.

6 - male, was on the front row with me. Engineer. Posts here from time to time, we've emailed, he's pretty anti-Seed, but shares with me some good memories. Has kids and is married, sounds very happy.

7 - male, newcomer when I was an oldcomer, successful business owner. We've spoken and emailed, he struggled with the Seed hierarchy and leaving was hard, he does feel that it saved his life although he has been critical, that's his bottom line.

8 - long-term seedling, oldcomer when I was, we lived together then, he's had a long career in a technical field and stuck with the Seed for a long time. We emailed, but he didn't reply after I made a comment critical of the Seed. Nice guy, but I don't think he wants to have anything to do with me on that basis at present. Pro-Seed.

9 - female, oldcomer when I was, was forced out of the Seed for some infraction, VERY anti-Seed, has posted here, but not recently.

10 and 11 - these are two people who I didn't know, one posts here and has written eloquently on the Seed, is very anti-Seed; and another, who started emailing me but has stopped, was on staff in early Seed days and is very perceptive about the process of the group - essentially anti-Seed but mostly because he feels Art screwed up.

I've had contact with one or two others, but the above are the main ones. Looks like an even division - one each, very anti-Seed, one each, very pro, and the rest divided. These are the people who, at least for a while, wanted to talk about this experience and reconnect. I am aware that there are others, many many others, who would just rather not talk about it. I think because it confuses them, they are not ready to deal with ambivalent feelings, or perhaps anger, or other disturbing emotions. They prefer to remember vaguely that it was tough but they did it, and maybe they're better of for it, or maybe not, but the past is the past.

For whatever reason, I needed to dredge it all up and have a look at it...

W

GregFL:
Yes Marc, I did feel I was more damaged by the Seed than my other friends.  This also added to the feeling of isolation and despair over the loss of most of my friends and family.  First it was the ridicule and scorn of the "druggies" when I became a seedling, then it was the silence and ostracation by the seedlings for speaking my mind (which I thought I had "earned" by becoming a graduate...stupid me), and then finally the loss of my family.

After this I moved to Ft Lauderdale and met a bunch of kids in my mother's apartment complex.  I smoked with them and told them the stories,and they were all amazed. Soon the stories weren't pertinent anymore and I stopped talking about it. I drove by the seed once in a while and yelled "the seed sucks", and  I ran into seedlings from time to time (maggie and Suzie, and then Art at Cranbrook), but mostly the Seed for me only existed as pain and anger I held inside.  I would see Art on TV once in a while while he was running for congress, and I would just go ballistic, usually pointing and calling him names like "theres that muther fucker right there!" or something like that.  Then I started seeing things about "the straight" and knowing that my father was involved in it, I just was overwhelmed by the scope of the whole thing. Once I saw a fundraiser being held by one of those shop at home networks for straight, and my stomach turned.  I couldn't believe it was getting that big.  My father and I were totally estranged during this time, and his actions were just unbelievable to me, that he would involve himself in the system of "treatment" that had chewed me up and spit me out.  It felt like  a personal attack on my self worth, to be frank.

 To me it was a major mind fuck that I just couldn't get out of my mind.  When I went to the university of florida I researched the seed in the library and found the "science" and "these are new times" articles and made exclamation marks beside the "branwashing" and other accusations.  These articles were like treasure to me because it seemed that yes, someone out there beside me understood what I went thru. I kept them and still have them to this day, and every once in a while I would bring them out and read them.

Then I got married and told my ex wife.  She didn't understand. In fact, thinking back, she would have made a perfect seed mom.  

Meanwhile, when I would run into my former seedling "friends" from St Pete they had seemed to just have shedded the whole experience, didnt' want to talk about it, and it didn't seem to be affecting them one way or the other.  I now believe this is false, but that is the attitude they would take.  This also made me feel seperate and different.

So yes, I think some of us did take it harder than others.  Kind of like some cats love being domesticated, and others will bolt for the door everytime it is left open.  I think this describes some some of us, held captive and struggling to stay true to ourselves in a situation where it was impossible to do so.  


This forum has been a wonderfull thing for me. I have been able to identify the anger, pain, and actual processes I was subjected to, and to put the pain and anger in the past.  I have been able to make peace with people that don't agree with me on the subject and understand that other people had different experiences.

I hope others have gotten something similar out of it.

marcwordsmith:
Well I certainly have gotten a whole lot out of the forum, Greg, so, as always, thank you.

Thank you Greg and Walter for your thoughtful responses to my last post. It's interesting to me that the other post that came--the one by the person who "benefitted" from both Catholic School and The Seed--was anonymous. What's up with all these anonymous Seed cheerleaders? So strange.

In fact, one of the most unexpected things about this whole forum is the presence of people still loyal to The Seed, still saying that they are straight and The Seed saved them. (In the beginning of the forum, everyone was angry about The Seed, isn't that right, Greg?) There were only two Seedlings that I knew who did not, as far as I know, start using drugs again within a year or two. The vast majority of former Seedlings were using drugs again, but acting as if The Seed had been no big deal.

Greg, I can't imagine how gross it would feel that your father should get involved with Straight after the damage you sustained in The Seed. That's cool that you went to UF though. I bet we were there at the same time. I arrived in fall '76 and stayed through the fall '78 quarter and then moved to CA.

I can also relate to feeling overwhelmed when I first heard about Straight. Shortly after moving to CA I became very active in anti-nuclear political activism and met a lot of lovely people and I thought to myself, Well, this is all so much more important than the Seed anyway. Then, in 1986, I was on the cross-county Great Peace March for Global Nuclear Disarmament and I was reading the novel, "A Scanner Darkly" by Philip K Dick, which had a fascist futuristic drug rehab in it. Another young man on the march saw me with the book, and he said, "Wow, you're reading that book? It's poignant as shit, man."

I said, "Well, I like it. I don't know if I'd call it poignant. But this drug rehab reminds me of an experience I myself had long ago . . ." and I told him about The Seed and his jaw dropped. He knew all about The Seed. He himself had been through Straight, and he was very very damaged. He told me all about Straight, how it had "blossomed" from The Seed, and about "motivating" and all the bizarre shit that went on, and how Straight was very very big right then. And I felt sick inside because I realized that the whole phenomenon was too much for me to face, even though I felt a responsibility to do something. Just the thought of trying to do anything filled me with such dread, I knew I couldn't be the one to start a survivors' movement against Straight/Seed or anything like that. I wanted somebody else to do it. And I guess, eventually, people like Ginger and Greg and Richard Bradbury and Maia Szalavitz did, albeit MUCH later than I could have imagined.

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