Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform > World Wide Association of Specialty Programs and Schools (WWASPS)
WWASP Exposed in Australia
BuzzKill:
//It's elementary Watson. Real simple chit.///
I get all that. Really. I do.
I just disagree that any of it, makes what Bock did, one jot less awful.
//small potatoes to what was really going on and at stake,//
Well, what was at stake? From your POV?
I feel the work of reaching out to program parents was fairly important. I always felt the ability to reach them, and explain the realities they weren't going to hear on the BBS, a high priority. And That, is what was at stake, from my POV. Bock destroyed any and all ability to find and reach these people - And she knew exactly what she was doing.
Its has always been a frustration, that you seem to have trouble grasping that the Trekkers were a large group of diverse individuals. *All* were hurt by Bock's actions, but only *one* had anything to do with PURE. The Only Trekker who had anything to do with PURE, was Susan. It wasn't PURE's email she sold to WWASP.
You seem to want to argue that Carey was pushed into her spite, by various Trekkers, (myself included) on this forum. From my perspective, she wasn't given any grief here, until after she had sold out the group. Quite Literally. Prior to that (or at least prior to the deed becoming known) She was debated on various subjects - such as her attack on Cold Water, the movie; and her harping on about the disappearance of Boarding School Truth's forum.
Those debates did get heated and snippy - but I would say this was only because of her tendency to believe her paranoid imaginings were reality; Or - maybe, it was part of the work she was doing for WWASP. But the mud slinging you speak of, the inquiries into her gross lack of integrity, were a direct result of what she did with her hard drive.
//You were a PURE supporter just like you were once a WWASPS supporter//
Well, I understand why you would think so.
I never considered myself a supporter of PURE. I did try and explain what I thought were misconceptions, (usually, trying to explain that the Trekkers had nothing to do with PURE) I did considered myself a friend of Susan's; Consequently, I did defend Susan's motives. (Until I saw evidence I was wrong about those motives.) But if what you mean by "supporter of PURE" is that I referred to PURE, or felt the ethics were perfectly sound - thats not and never was true. I never considered being supportive of Sue, the same as supporting PURE. Sue was a friend. PURE was a business. I always tried to keep them seperate in my mind.
And Yes, I fell for the Program spiel. Yes, its embarrassing. But I am hardly alone, and my time as a Program Parent was short. I spoke out plainly from the moment I saw problems. I admit to being susceptible to excessive trust and loyalty. In my defense - I am able to admit it when given evidence I was wrong.
How 'bout yourself?
//ISAC and PURE, I agree that is a shame but again, hardly suprising given the fundamentally different agenda of these two organizations//
Now - I do agree with this. I've said the same myself - all things considered, it was inevitable.
But does this make Susan's actions OK; or, have her actions been at least as despicable, as predictable?
How is Carey Bock different?
Antigen:
No, Karen, I think you're mistaken. The outright smear campaign started many months before any mention of the hard drive sale. And it did, indeed, include more than just Sue.
Based on that action and some other, most unhelpful things that went on around that time, I can easily understand how Carey could conclude that we're all a bunch of back stabbing, trecherous assholes no better than WWASP. And, if that were the case, who would care if we all cut each other to bloody ribons? And if she could liberate some cash in the process and put it to good use, so much the better.
I never did know who all was or wasn't on the Trekkers list. Honestly, at the time I thought it was a relatively public list that I might get around to joining one day, but never had time to look into it at the time. But I understand that some of my emails, however forwarded, copied or otherwise acquired, were into that mix too.
As I say, I don't know. Haven't talked w/ Carey in... damn, two years or so. And no one can know the mind of another. But that was my take on it at the time. And who could blame anyone for drawing that conclusion? Sue sure is good at name dropping, pretending that every damned body was on her side. And, as I understand it, she took Carey for more than just a little good faith. She got a nice chunk of cold hard cash for her "help" in dialing 1-800-snatchmykid.
I just don't see any reason to demonize her. It's sort of unfair, in light of the fact that she probably is restrained from defending herself these days.
The idea of God is the sole wrong for which I cannot forgive mankind.
--Marquis de Sade, French libertine
--- End quote ---
Anonymous:
Well, I think your memory is failing you Buzz but what the hay, it's all water under the bridge now. Your heart seems to be in the right place when it comes to wanting to help parents and kids from making the same mistakes you and the other trekkers did. The only problem I have is that obviously outfits like PURE need to be regulated to stop them from profiting from the placement of children into programs who PAY FINDER'S FEES. That is a gaping hole that needs to be plugged ASAP. Are you working with A START to try and get these referral agencies who have been flying under the radar so long under control? That would be one way to really help kids and parent IMO and I do think ISAC and others could make a huge difference in that regard.
Peace Sister!
Anonymous:
--- Quote ---On 2006-03-17 21:46:00, Eudora wrote:
"No, Karen, I think you're mistaken. The outright smear campaign started many months before any mention of the hard drive sale. And it did, indeed, include more than just Sue.
Based on that action and some other, most unhelpful things that went on around that time, I can easily understand how Carey could conclude that we're all a bunch of back stabbing, trecherous assholes no better than WWASP. And, if that were the case, who would care if we all cut each other to bloody ribons? And if she could liberate some cash in the process and put it to good use, so much the better.
I never did know who all was or wasn't on the Trekkers list. Honestly, at the time I thought it was a relatively public list that I might get around to joining one day, but never had time to look into it at the time. But I understand that some of my emails, however forwarded, copied or otherwise acquired, were into that mix too.
As I say, I don't know. Haven't talked w/ Carey in... damn, two years or so. And no one can know the mind of another. But that was my take on it at the time. And who could blame anyone for drawing that conclusion? Sue sure is good at name dropping, pretending that every damned body was on her side. And, as I understand it, she took Carey for more than just a little good faith. She got a nice chunk of cold hard cash for her "help" in dialing 1-800-snatchmykid.
I just don't see any reason to demonize her. It's sort of unfair, in light of the fact that she probably is restrained from defending herself these days.
The idea of God is the sole wrong for which I cannot forgive mankind.
--Marquis de Sade, French libertine
--- End quote ---
"
--- End quote ---
Thanks Ginger, that's my recollection too about the origins of the smear campaign. I also agree with your observations about Carey.
FYI ... 1-800 snatchmykid is beautiful .. I don't know where you come up with these little gems (spoofs) but I'm glad you do because it restores my faith in humanity when I can laugh about this effing industry instead of feeling so burdened by the sheer horror of it all.
:smokin:
Antigen:
Yeah, I like Karen too. I'm still not convinced that we need more regulation, though. I think we need a better educated, less dependent populace.
For one thing, regulation already exists about patient brokering. And, if we're to be honest, what they do to these kids and their families in this industry certainly is some potent psychology. Hardly therapeutic, but potent psychological methods, to be sure. If we could get the existing regulators to see past the imaginary emergency of out of "a generation control" and to actually hold them accountable for lings like practicing medicine w/o proper licensure, best practices and such, that might help.
For another, really, how smart is it to trust someone to take full custody of your kid, even holding them incommunicado from you and the rest of the world just cause they say they're nice people?? Come on now, folks!
Third, and most disconcerting, who the hell is A-Start and what sort of solutions do they propose? Last I looked, they seem to advocate mandatory mental health screening for all school kids. Here's an exceprt cache copy of their conference page:
--- Quote ---Title: The Exploitation of Youth and Families by Unregulated Residential Treatment Facilities: A Dangerous Consequence of Unmet Needs
Synopsis: Over the past decade, the number of private residential facilities for U.S. youth has grown exponentially, and many are neither licensed as mental health programs by states, nor accredited by recognized national accrediting organizations. Unregulated residential programs have been linked to reports of youth mistreatment, abuse, and death, as well as exploitation of families. This presentation will provide a description of the phernomenon in terms of common program features and the range of mistreatment reported, including harsh discipline, inappropriate seclusion and restraint, substandard psychotherapeutic interventions conducted by unqualified staff, medical and nutritional neglect, and rights violations. The presenters will then describe the conditions that seem to have facilitated the proliferation of such programs, in terms of unmet need, modern-day marketing strategies, adjunctive service industries including educational consultation and "escort" / transport services, the lack of existent and consistent regulation, and the absence of research. Finally recommendations regarding the coordination of a response to this complex phenomenon will be outlined.
--- End quote ---
Unmet needs? Wait a second, back up, let's examine this a bit. In my experience and according to a whole lot of other ppl who have been put through it, the majority of kids who land up in these gulags only unmet need is for some sane person to notice that their parents are utterly neurotic and to rescue them from all the unneccessary "help".
And these folks have never answered any questions either about their ignorance of Straight, DFAF and other manifestations of the TOUGHLOVE hategroup right there in their own camp in the Tampa Bay Area over the past 30 years nor about any affiliation w/ the Büsh people's New Freedom Initiative right there on their own campus and their partners, the Bazelon Center for Mental Health Law, http://www.bazelon.org/ , which seems to be all about garnering ever more federal funding for mental health services?
Shouldn't we screen these people for mental health before we ask them to help improve ours? In my humble opinion, the most dangerous lunatics in the damned country are located right there inside the beltway, except when they winter in Florida.
I'm not saying they're entirely bad. In fact, they give some very good advice and food for thought right here on their fact sheet:
http://cfs.fmhi.usf.edu/projects/AStart ... tsheet.pdf
However, they are all, except for the victim spokespeople, psyche professionals. Isn't asking them if a kid needs treatment about like asking a barber if you need a haircut? Seriously. Even well intended, well educated, compassionate people have their blind spots.
Keep close to Nature's heart... and break clear away, once in awhile, and climb a mountain or spend a week in the woods. Wash your spirit clean.
-- John Muir
--- End quote ---
_________________
fka ~ Antigen
Drug war POW
Straight, Sarasota
`80 - `82
return undef() if /coercion/i;[ This Message was edited by: Eudora on 2006-03-17 23:29 ]
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