Do Protests Work?

[RTP2003]

Maybe that is really the way to go, hitting them in the wallet, through lawsuits, decreasing enrollments, higher operating expenses, and such, making it financially unfeasable to operate these centers.   How to go about hitting them financially, other than lawsuits?  Hmmmm.

[teachback]

(again, in no way am I advocating this, and if you do it, Animals, don't go writing "RTP says it's cool" in blood, OK?).

 :smokin:

[Anonymous]

http://home.tiscali.be/comicstrip/anarc ... rcook.html

[starry-eyed pirate]

Never buy anything!  Str8 philosophy is informed by the entire western mentality world view idea that people are seperate from Nature and that Nature needs to be controlled.  

...De-centralize the economy!!!

[Antigen]

On 2006-02-26 10:27:00, starry-eyed pirate wrote:

"Never buy anything!  Str8 philosophy is informed by the entire western mentality world view idea that people are seperate from Nature and that Nature needs to be controlled.  



...De-centralize the economy!!!  "

Indeed! We should take Moe's frequently offered advice and S P R E A D   O U T ! ! !

Next the statesmen will invent cheap lies, putting the blame upon the nation that is attacked,  and every man will be glad of those conscience-soothing falsities, and will diligently study them, and refuse to examine any refutations of them; and thus he will by and by convince himself that  the war is just, and will thank God for the better sleep he enjoys after this process of grotesque  self-deception."  
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0517150735/circlofmiamithem' target='_new'>Mark Twain, The Mysterious Stranger, 1916, Ch.9

[Anonymous]

On 2006-02-26 09:28:00, RTP2003 wrote:

  Maybe that is really the way to go, hitting them in the wallet, through lawsuits, decreasing enrollments, higher operating expenses, and such, making it financially unfeasable to operate these centers.   How to go about hitting them financially, other than lawsuits?  Hmmmm. "

What about lawsuits against program parents who ran "foster homes"?  Certainly they were aware of abuses, and as adults were in some way responsible for the ones perpetrated against children within the walls of the foster home.  If they were unaware, then it seems that they would be negligent.  By going after program parents, it could discourage potential recruits out of fear of a lawsuit, as well as give media attention to abusive teen facilities.  Has anyone explored that option, going after program parents who helped in the abuse, kidnapping, restraint, etc. of kids in these places?

[Anonymous]

On 2006-02-26 09:28:00, RTP2003 wrote:

"



  Maybe that is really the way to go, hitting them in the wallet, through lawsuits, decreasing enrollments, higher operating expenses, and such, making it financially unfeasable to operate these centers.   How to go about hitting them financially, other than lawsuits?  Hmmmm. "

bump

[001010]

If done appropriately and respectfully they can be effective over time, I believe.  It really depends on the objective. Protests should be about educating the general public on something they may not be aware of. In order to do this, it takes a certain mindset and marketing mentality. Otherwise, people may just think you?re some crazy Lib throwing a tantrum.  It?s all about presentation and target audience.

My .02

[Anonymous]

Do protests work?  Straight is out of business in name, so the answer is Yes.

[starry-eyed pirate]

On 2006-02-28 07:14:00, Anonymous wrote:

"Do protests work?  Straight is out of business in name, so the answer is Yes."

Well I guess if you just didn't like the name of the place. :roll: How 'bout if they changed the name then, from "the Seed" to "Straight" or from "Straight" to ...say..."Family Pathways" or "Kids Helping Kids".  That'd be much better...huh ??

Look a little deeper, for real, you must be kiddin'...right ??

[Anonymous]

I would suggest suing the host homes "homeowners" insurance policies.

[85 Day Jerk]

Day by day, Mel Sembler loses respect and clout in this area because of a lack of adequate parking in the greater downtown St. Pete area.  One reason is because of a 43 year old man who wears punk rock t-shirts on occasion and walks around with a yellow collared Macaw on his shoulder.  Whenever a frustrated motorist asks this person what happened to all the free parking spots, he is always glad to respond, "Fucking Mel Sembler and his asshole buddies ate it all up when they built Baywalk, have a nice day!"

just in case you're slow, the person with the Macaw on his shoulder is me, and each time I speak with a pissed off citizen that is simply trying to park their car to run an errand, bank, or shop it has an impact on them.  For every 1 person who loves Baywalk or any other of Sembler's attrocious building projects, there are another 50 people that hate them.  This is just my little way of 'sticking it to the man.'

[starry-eyed pirate]

On 2006-02-28 08:54:00, starry-eyed pirate wrote:

"

On 2006-02-28 07:14:00, Anonymous wrote:



"Do protests work?  Straight is out of business in name, so the answer is Yes."

Well I guess if you just didn't like the name of the place. :roll: How 'bout if they changed the name then, from "the Seed" to "Straight" or from "Straight" to ...say..."Family Pathways" or "Kids Helping Kids".  That'd be much better...huh ??



Look a little deeper, for real, you must be kiddin'...right ??"

Ah!  It occurs to me now, that I may have missed your point!  It seems that your observation is correct; that protesters did in fact contribute to the demise of Straight Inc.  So in a microcosmic way you are correct.  However, since the social forces which powered Straight Inc. remained in power they were able to re-group in another place under another name and go right on abusing the rights of minors.  So on the grander stage the protesing of Straight Inc. was a failure.  Protesting can work if you know what to aim at.  It can get pretty tricky tryin' to bring down shape-shifters.  I think picketting the different and varied re-incarnations of $tr8 is great, but needs to be supported by writers, public speakers and musicians and artists of all kinds, in order to bring about and sustain the kind of cultural and social awareness that would cause institutions like $tr8 to lose their political support.  The aim needs to be on the social values that not only condone, but in fact create these criminal institutions in the first place, and not just on the physical manifestations of those values in the form of the Seed/Straight Inc. and it's legacy alone.

[Antigen]

Damn, Pirate! Whatever you've been doing lately, keep doing it. You're in rare form lately.

Yes, indeed, the Seed is still the Seed under all of it's demonic new names. I think this whole thing is just a whole lot bigger than any of is believed. I used to play with the idea of trying to write some future tense sci-fi based on those "take over the world" raps. But the more I learn, the more I realize it's not fiction.

Check this shit out:
http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?So ... 49&forum=9

Eckerd camps have been around longer than the Seed, I think. Then there are the Florida Sheriff's Boys and Girls ranches. Do you ever wonder how they work?

Well I've been almost alone in thinking that the spooky Seed/DFAF people running things in Florida are running the public sector gulags just about the same way. No one who's been through them (till now) seems willing to talk about it in any real detail.

Ok, so we know that guards in Bay County beat Martin Lee Anderson and the next day he died in the hospital. But what about the rest of the info on that short video? What about the way all actors were acting? Like it was business as usual. Then we find out this is the third kid they've killed by similar means in as many years. And that's ONLY the state contract programs. Never mind the private ones w/ state wards and court ordered inmates and all of the Roloff affiliated "faith based" programs.

I often say that protests are almost always a good time, hardly ever really effective. But really, yeah they are. If you put together the right message aimed at the right target for the right reasons and you carry it off well. When that happens, then you get press and literature, music and art, people talking and then things change; hopefully for the better, but no guarantees there.

I'm considering taking part in another one, very much along the same lines as this discussion. The one we did in Milford was, except for the weather, lots of fun and quite successful. The one thing I'd like to bring about, though, hasn't happened yet. I want to bring Cinci area KHK/Straight vets out of the wood work. They've got a big problem w/ DFAF ppl infiltrating their government. They probably don't even know it, but if they did I think they'd see to the end of that nightmare pretty quick.

Next stop is Columbus to bitch about the fact that ODADAS refuses to do their job and hold their lunatic friends at KHK to the law.

The introduction of a Creator has done our independence no good.
--Gore Vidal, author

[Antigen]

One other thing. Look at the combined impact of all of the protests, lawsuites, regulatory and criminal investigations, journalism and such like on Straight, Inc. No, they never did shut down. We all know that. They just reorganized and renamed and split off into sub-groups. Just like it always has been, each new group thinks they're the exception, that they've eliminated all the abuse from the bad old days. Just the same as it ever was, they keep up that pretense for as long as they can till some of the new blood decides they've got the secret recipe and they split off again. The more things change, the more they stay the same.

BUT! One really big BUT! In the `80's, no one I know of knew about the senate investigation or the pshrinks' annalysis of the Program. And though there were headlines, there weren't court transcripts and huge settlements. Thanks to Fred, Lulu and a whole lot of other people who went to the courts. Thanks, too, maybe especially to those who tried and lost.

Now we have that foundation of demonstrable, documented history. So the conversation can go from there and move forward. What next? Who knows? I'm thinking more and more about making up some t-shirts and bumper stickers. Cafe Press is just too damned expensive. There must be a better way.

Would you wear a tie dye shirt w/ the words "I was held captive and tortured by Republicans"? or "Forced Treatment = Stalinist Reeducation"? How about getting together some musicians, a venu and an audience and do fundraisers all over the country for an Exit Plan foundation? How cool would that be for a kid getting the bum's rush from the family for non-compliance w/ some dumb program's rules? They could call up, provide some evidence of having been in a program and get a month's free lodging, food, clothes and basics.

One has to multiply thoughts to the point where there aren't enough
policemen to control them



--Stanislaw Lec