Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform > The Seed Discussion Forum
Another 73/74 Seedling Grad
Deborah:
Your compass analogy is accurate, and probably wouldn?t be challenged. Another way of say that is changing another?s thinking- perceptions/values/morals.
What is being argued everyday on Fornits is HOW any particular program goes about removing the old and installing the new, if it?s even necessary, and if the means justify the ends. Shocking, that True North for you and others is that the way programs do this is useful and humane.
Changing one?s thinking/belief (software) is not necessarily a bad thing. It can be useful, particularly if the current programming runs something like, ?It?s okay to abuse kids in order to change their behavior/beliefs?. And you?re right, that thinking has been on the planet for a l-o-n-g time...despite overwhelming evidence that it?s not useful. It?s disrespectful. Teaches how to ACT, not BE. Teaches through modeling, that utilizing force/abuse to gain what YOU want, to trample on the will of others, is appropriate.
If we look at prisons, which have been around since Day 1, it?s clear that incarceration/abuse/punishment is not a useful motivator of positive change. If we look at the reports compiled on RTCs, we see the same results. High ?recidivism?, because it is NOT a useful or ?effective? model for helping another find THEIR North.
While it may appear to create a positive change in some, the question must be asked- what caused the change? A genuine transformation.of the person?s thinking in a positive direction, or a response to fear? Many of us believe the latter. The appearance of change doesn?t justify what was done to get there.
The primary fault with this method is FORCE. You can not force someone to adopt your values/morals/thinking. It?s a lazy/ignorant way of going about it, even if your intentions are pure.
If I call a friend and tell her I?m coming for a week without tobacco, and ask her to support me in giving it up, that?s one thing.
But if she and some other friends kidnap me (for my own good), denied me tobacco, told me how worthless I was, what a looser I was for smoking, how my smoking was hurting everyone who loved me. If they physically restrained me when I attempted to leave or showed anger about being held against my will. If they denied me food or time in nature based on my mood any given day. If they denied me contact with family, friends, and the outside world (triggers to smoke). If they forced me to read ?motivational? books and watch gory films showing the effects to tobacco use. If they forced me to clean trashcans and toilets with a toothbrush for righteous indignation?. We could go on?.. I wouldn?t consider them friends and would consider filing charges, bring a lawsuit, as soon as I escaped. And I?d conclude that they had a motive other than wanting to give me a hand with my ?addiction?- like taking care of their own needs/fear/selfishness. If my family was funding the ?abduction? they?d be included in the suit.
Now if they were people I loved and they hijacked me but treated me well, with total love and positive regard? that type of intervention, I MIGHT appreciate, ONLY if done well. I would NOT want this ?help? from strangers, because it?s my belief that a stranger can?t provide the type of environment or intervention that I would appreciate.
Programs can not provide the latter type of ?intervention?. Too many unskilled people who don?t genuinely care about or have a vested interest in their charges. Too many sadists. Too many pedophiles. You can?t legislate love and positive regard. Given that reality, what option is available to ?helpers? in their quest to change (help) others?? Behavior modification- heavy on punishment, abuse, intimidation, humiliation. And the only ?reward? being- adoption of the forced values/thinking of the captors in order to regain your freedom.
In conclusion, it?s the moral compass of ?helpers? that needs to be adjusted. True North for me would be the end to the pathologizing and the commodification of adolescence (kids in general) and the rush to rescue/disable parents rather than help them to become better parents. It would look like the masses rising up and demanding better policies that supported families and kids. Doing what serves their kids rather than following the status quo. A return to a more rational, pro-life, way of living.
And this says nothing of the thousands and thousands of teens who were abducted and warehoused, who NEVER were in jeopardy of hurting themselves, whose ?compass? never needed adjustment, whose parent thought their own compass was pointing North, when in reality it was pointed due SOUTH.
cleveland:
Great post Deborah. That is a very useful analogy.
I think the whole problem is an 'ends justifies the means' mentality. 'This is for your own good' - how often has that been used for evil?
Isn't it interesting that it is the Right that wants to enforce morality against one's will. What about limited government? In Maoist China it was the Left.
marshall:
:nworthy:
Absolutely great post Deborah! How do we determine if the person or group that is determined to replace our compass or fix our morals, worldview, etc. has a compass that is accurate themselves? Who gets to say which way is north? The Inquisators were kindly trying to save the immortal souls of their victims. History & our world is full of those that 'know' what is right for everyone else and are willing to use force to bring it about. So many people want someone to direct them and tell them which way is up and this provides ready followers for those that seem certain of their own views. Ah, but 'question authority' was one of those hippie, druggie ideas that needed discarding in order to produce nice, compliant, conforming seedlings.
3xsaSeedling:
YEARS later (I'm a little slow sometimes)...
Try this: you 'flunk' reality,
'they' put you in theSeed.
you 'flunk' theSeed,
'they' give up.
wtfit?
GregFL:
Who are "they"? I have always wondered that.
Welcome to the forum 3X. I notice some of your posts. It seems you were there during the early days. Were you there after 1973?
Thanks for your participation.
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