Former CEDU Therapist

[Anonymous]

According to some of your posts you are definately anti-CEDU and you did not agree with any of what the school did and you did report them the best you could.  I know that you wanted to help then but here is your chance now.

Alot of former students all have these feelings of being quite different and odd from the rest of the "real world", where we feel we don't fit in.  Our experiences are unique and we are the only ones that can understand each other for the experiences that we went through and this is the only place that we can turn for understanding of what we really went though.

Some people have been diagnosed with PTSD, bi-polar and other phychological "labels".  I believe that Cedu has done something to all of us that does not yet have a label.  The experiences have all been detrimental from social phobia to the worst case senerio suicide.  I know you saw what went on there and the practices and tactics that CEDU used, and you are also a therapist with 13 years of education, do you have any insight on what we are feeling or experiencing as the after effect of going there?

I know that you believe that it was at least cult-like so perhaps the psychological ramifications of that are affecting us all.  You also mentioned Stockholm Syndrom.  I have heard of PTCD post tramutic cult disorder.   What did that school do to our psyches and what can we do now without going to another psychologist that doesn't understand what really happened.

Basically I am asking you as a former therapist to help those now, for whom you couldn't help then.  Please give us understanding and insight.

[Anonymous]

I'm not FCT, but I wonder if the truth was that many of us were odd ducks prior to CEDU anyway.  Not bad, maybe not troubled, but different from our peers. Maybe we had a unique sensitivity. So we go to a place like CEDU, and instead of capitalizing on our individualism and strengths, and helping us cope better with our sensitivities, they just mind fucked us to death.  This only exacerbated our feeling of exclusion later.

Also, I don't know what happened later, but when I went to CEDU, there was no help for depression, bipolar, ADD, etc.  So, if you had anxiety or depression, it was never dealt with. Later, they just numbed you with enough tranks to down a horse whether you had a chemical imbalance or not.  Truthfully, I don't know how you could effectively diagnose or label a kid in puberty when the whole period is just one big goulash of hormonal chaos anyway.

The problem with CEDU is that very few people have the expertise to deal with what happens when you leave a place most people have no way of understanding.  Even some parents who realized it's a crock of crapola don't want to talk about it. Everybody just wishes it would go away, but it doesn't.

[Anonymous]

Sure we might have been odd to begin with and we "acted out" but really we all just wanted love from our parents but they just thought they couldn't handle us so they sent us to CEDU.  The psychological sciences began to touch the surface of diagnosing ADD, etc. but it didn't have the drugs they do today.

I have ADHD but I don't think it makes me any different, I don't use it as a crutch and I don't use that as an excuse to my problems.  I think it just makes me want to do more than the average person.  And ritilin makes me sluggish and useless so I prefer to be me and not take it.  I do fine.

The fact still remains CEDU did something to us all, this is not paranoia, when your yelled at for 4 hours 3-4 times a week and "broken down" for reprogramming, that program did something.  I just want to know what and why, it was for the masses as we were not individually diagnosed with anything.

Also after I left I went on my merry way.  Did okay  for a long time and slowly over time things started to get wierd.  I have heard this from a few other former CEDU Survivors.  It doesn't start to really hit for at least 2-5 years after you leave and it gets progressivly odder the longer you are out.

Perhaps this is a new pshychological issue or phemomenon that these schools have triggered.  The average pshychologist wants to categorize it into a disorder that they already know such as bi-polar or PTSD but since this whole program was cultish or at least had cult-like tactics and in masses it must be different.  Alot of us have the same symptoms such as social anxiety but I am sure it is much different social anxiety for someone who went to CEDU and someone who didn't.  

You are right about the expertise to deal with it that is why I asked the FCT who had some first hand knowledge of what went on there, s/he saw it.  And nobody wants to talk about it and they all want it to go away and you're right it doesn't - we're branded by CEDU.

[former CEDU therapist]

I'll post about this - but in brief, you cannot develop bipolar disorder from any experience - it's strictly genetic. I did see kids who came in with that diagnosis, but it was incorrect.

PTSD is a different creature altogether. I've heard STAFF say they had it.

Here are a couple of websites:

http://www.isaccorp.org/cults.html
http://www.thestraights.com/page2/page2.htm

I don't have the time right now to respond as I would like to. But that first one - isaccorp.org is great. Look at that and click on the like to Rick Ross.

I'll post later... perhaps this weekend. I appreciate an opportunity to lend any insight I might have. I'm not the smartest person and I certainly have my limits... including a short time there a long time ago. There is a lot I don't know. But I'll do my best.

I do know that it's hard, after an experience like this, to know how you would feel had you not had it. This is a real quandry - what does one attribute these feelings to? Would I feel like this anyway? Was it CEDU that did this? Did CEDU just make things worse... so I might have these feelings but not as intensely? As one of you posted - maybe you were "odd ducks" to begin with. It's true that some of the kids I saw were exceptional. Truly. Brilliant, creative... outside the box. Some parents could not handle this. And kids who used drugs... parents were worried they would hurt themselves and didn't know what to do. And I did see kids who had permanent brain damage... but most of them were just fine.

I would tell the parents that I really wasn't worried about their kid. That the kid would be fine in the long run. They were so happy to hear this, of course. Some said, "thank you for believing in my child." How sad!

I do want to give you a thoughtful response. So I'll come back to this. I've never heard of PTCD - it's not a diagnosis at this time... but that does not mean it doesn't exist. Certainly, there are worse cults. Much worse. But yes, I do see a lot of traits of a cult in CEDU.

I'll get back you you guys. I do hope you have a happy and safe New Year. And I do wish to thank you for your kindness. That person with me in his/her crosshairs was just too weird.

[Anonymous]

Thank you for responding!

Prior to CEDU I was funny, outgoing and had a lot of friends.  After CEDU things weren't as funny, I was not as ougoing and I lost alot of friends and my family support completely fell apart.  This is something of a side effect of CEDU.  

I miss the person I was prior to CEDU.  I made people laugh, now I am much more serious and to myself.  I don't like to be confronted and I don't like being in a circle of people because I don't want to get yelled at or even be the center of attention. I don't have the confidence that I did before that place and I truly miss that.  I wholeheartly believe that CEDU changed me and not for the better.  When you are yelled at the way that they did and just crucified for "real or false dirt" that really makes you not trust people the way you did before CEDU not to mention the physical hardships.  Alot of people also had a hard time adjusting to the "real world" after Cedu.

I know that I am not the only one who has this lack of confidence.  IT was cult-like and the program did do something.  I'm really just trying to find understanding and since you have seen some of what they did perhaps you have insight.  Oh and by the way I have been out of CEDU since the late 80's and it still haunts me.

[Anonymous]

On 2005-12-30 21:55:00, former CEDU therapist wrote:

"I'll post later... perhaps this weekend. I appreciate an opportunity to lend any insight I might have. I'm not the smartest person and I certainly have my limits... including a short time there a long time ago. There is a lot I don't know. But I'll do my best.

I do want to give you a thoughtful response. So I'll come back to this. I've never heard of PTCD - it's not a diagnosis at this time... but that does not mean it doesn't exist. Certainly, there are worse cults. Much worse. But yes, I do see a lot of traits of a cult in CEDU.



I'll get back you you guys."

Any additional input or information that you have thought of FCT?

[Peregrinus]

**I'll post about this - but in brief, you cannot develop bipolar disorder from any experience - it's strictly genetic. I did see kids who came in with that diagnosis, but it was incorrect.

PTSD is a different creature altogether. I've heard STAFF say they had it.**


Respectfully, were you qualified to dispute *any* diagnosis? If bipolar disorder is genetic, and you feel you were able to conclude that a certain diagnosis was incorrect, can you outline for us the methodology you used to arrive at your conclusion? I ask this because the staff I saw in 1983 at RMA were in my opinion, largely unqualified to understand, much less use, the tools at their disposal. I will charitably assume that most of them had 'good intentions' but as your own post indicates, they may have been too weighted with their own baggage to do anything but transfer onto children. Couple this with a lack of real therapeutic training, (and no, inculcation of Synanon ideas does not count as accreditation), and the road to hell was well paved.

Bridget
Tacoma, WA

[OKB4RMA]

This Website has literally brought tears to my eyes since I recently discovered it...what people have described seems to mirror my life after RMA(85-86). I know what has happened to quite a few of the graduates of our time since leaving and most of the stories are not happy ones. I know of one suicide, my RMA "big" brother ended up in prison I heard, others went on to lives of nothingness on the streets yet while at RMA were quite exceptional. The only ones that I know that ended up being successful were the few that were able to let the "abuse" roll off them like water off a ducks back. I have survived so far but the feelings of isolation seem to grow with every passing year. I have seen psychologists, psychiatrists...been diagnosed bipolar yet it has been refractory...I really just think that RMA messed with our heads too much when we were impressionable teenagers. The damage has been done...I just don't know what it is and where to begin fixing it. Basically...I feel that rather than being empowered by the program it just stripped all my coping skills that are essential to surviving in the REAL WORLD.[ This Message was edited by: OKB4RMA on 2006-01-12 00:34 ]

[try another castle]

I have seen psychologists, psychiatrists...been diagnosed bipolar yet it has been refractory...I really just think that RMA messed with our heads too much when we were impressionable teenagers.

I am bipolar also. I often wonder how many teens who suffer from bipolar disorder were sent to places like these in the hopes that it would help their condition, despite the fact that the staff there were far from qualified to deal with that.

When you and I were there, the school's view of bipolar and other psychological conditions was from the dark ages. They had the Tom Cruise school of thought. All you need is some exercise and an aspirin and you're good to go. Your condition was strictly emotional and had no chemical component at all, and would be helped through raps, propheets and workshops. Kind of the same way that it was believed that kids who thought they were gay were simply straight kids with issues they hadn't worked through yet.

Then bad went to worse. In the 90s they started officially accepting students with conditions that required medication. I don't know all of the details about how the transition happened, all I know is that kids were overmedicated and misdiagnosed like crazy. They took a school with a completely archaic view of mental health and suddenly they had the jurisdiction to diagnose and medicate mental illnesses? Insane!

_________________

[OKB4RMA]

I was fine before RMA...I had a life...did well in school...and was only sent there because I was caught smoking pot...after RMA things went downhill progressively until 8 years after graduation I was "diagnosed"...however...I wonder how many of us aren't actually bipolar but have zero coping skills now because of the brainwashing techniques employed.

[Anonymous]

I, too, worked at CEDU in RS, but it was back in the mid to late 70's.  As I said in another post somewhere else in here, I never saw any evidence of anything sexual (other than some male staffers who were from Synanon making remarks to each other in off hours about some of the girls.) Also, I sat in rap sessions & did one profeet (Mel thought it was "beneficial" for all staff, theraputic or administrative) to have the experience.  I did see lots of yelling, was on the receiving end a few times, but never saw it to the extreme.  Keep in mind, I was 24, with a 4 year old daughter, divorced & living with a family head (we later married & divorced).  When I saw the "newspaper" post yesterday about Michael Allgood & his arrest & the accusations, I was horrified.  I pray to god this was not going on back then & my heart aches for the kids who had to endure abuse.  We were supposed to give them a safe place to confront the fears & "issues" (I hate that word), but it sounds like many were absolutely scarred for life.  Please help me to understand when & where this stuff started up.  Also, any other info you can direct me to would be appreciated.  Do you have info on any of the old timers, like John Stallone, Morty Molin, John Padgett (my ex), Dan Earle (started Outward Bound-like program).  Thanks so much.

[Peregrinus]

You underscore my point that most the 'therapists' at CEDU schools, (my experience was with RMA) appear to have been well-intentioned. But when you are  using powerful psychological technology, you have to be more than merely well-intentioned; you have to be well-trained. I daresay that a B.S. in Psych and a few employer sponsored seminars doesn't cut it.
Respectfully, had you been thinking critically instead of emotively, you may have seen some red flags. What you should have known is that negative reinforcement is not that effective, and that 'tearing a person down' (an often used phrase at RMA)is controversial at best, especially when coercion is involved.

This having been said, I am willing to apply the same standards to myself that I would apply to you; when I read testimonials by people who claim to have suffered damage, or when I hear them map present emotional difficulties to their stay at a CEDU school, I consider the possibility that the simple relationship they see may in fact be more complex. By the time a child is 14, a lot of groundwork has already been laid, character formation is well underway, and events may or may not have the long-term impact that is routinely claimed. To be blunt: For every person who suffered real damage, there may be another who has found a convenient way to dodge responsibility. There is an element of self-aggrandizement evident in some posts which leads me to conclude that there are some elements of a story which have been omitted, consciously or unconsiously.

Lastly, claims of damage or abuse aside, there is a serious issue of misrepresentation that appears to be quite well documented. I don't think most of the parents knew what was really going on;  when they found out, they displayed a consistent pattern of pulling their kids.

In my stay at RMA, I did witness and experience what I would call verbal and emotional abuse, which came dangerously close to physical. My diary from my stay is a classic chronicle of sa person attempting to withstand the lies which were being foist upon them. I never 'got with' the program, I was hammered in rap regularly, I was on ban from pretty much everyone, and mercifully, I did not 'graduate', so any damage I sustained was probably minimal. Others' mileage doubtlessly varies.

Bridget
Tacoma, WA

[try another castle]

On 2006-01-12 13:41:00, Anonymous wrote:

"I, too, worked at CEDU in RS, but it was back in the mid to late 70's.  As I said in another post somewhere else in here, I never saw any evidence of anything sexual (other than some male staffers who were from Synanon making remarks to each other in off hours about some of the girls.) Also, I sat in rap sessions & did one profeet (Mel thought it was "beneficial" for all staff, theraputic or administrative) to have the experience.  I did see lots of yelling, was on the receiving end a few times, but never saw it to the extreme.  Keep in mind, I was 24, with a 4 year old daughter, divorced & living with a family head (we later married & divorced).  When I saw the "newspaper" post yesterday about Michael Allgood & his arrest & the accusations, I was horrified.  I pray to god this was not going on back then & my heart aches for the kids who had to endure abuse.  We were supposed to give them a safe place to confront the fears & "issues" (I hate that word), but it sounds like many were absolutely scarred for life.  Please help me to understand when & where this stuff started up.  Also, any other info you can direct me to would be appreciated.  Do you have info on any of the old timers, like John Stallone, Morty Molin, John Padgett (my ex), Dan Earle (started Outward Bound-like program).  Thanks so much."

Dan Earle had sex with a female student and got fired from RMA. Carmen divorced him as well after that incident.

The shit about Michael Allgood, I believe, is false. The poster who wrote that gave us no link, and if you read further down in the thread, I point out that the case is literally identical to another man who was charged with the same crime, and also had reams and reams of notebooks mentioning his victims and what he did to them.

Another poster in that forum brought up a good point. Michael Allgood did enough shit, it's detrimental to bring up false accusations against him when there is so much damning stuff that is valid and true. I myself didn't know him, because I was never at Cascade, but I recall lots of alumni who post here  saying they hated him.

[Anonymous]

I completely understand every passing year brings more odd feelings.

I remember one conversation that I overheard while at cedu from students.  So and so is completely fucked up now because how do you use those tools on the outside, like running your anger, what do these tools even do for you in the real world?  So very true - does anyone use them today? How do you talk to people on the "outside" about thier feelings or indict them at work because they pissed you off, is that even socially acceptable?  How many people have called you emotional?

When you leave that place you have been programmed, for what I don't know, I too was fine before and over the years changed, I just feel in my soul that I am not myself or who I was, a part of my soul is missing. I blame cedu.

I still truely think that cedu did something to us all, known or not.  I don't know what just yet but being abused like that had to have some side effects.  For now, I will call it Post Tramatic CEDU Experience.

On 2006-01-12 00:29:00, OKB4RMA wrote:

"This Website has literally brought tears to my eyes since I recently discovered it...what people have described seems to mirror my life after RMA(85-86). I know what has happened to quite a few of the graduates of our time since leaving and most of the stories are not happy ones. I know of one suicide, my RMA "big" brother ended up in prison I heard, others went on to lives of nothingness on the streets yet while at RMA were quite exceptional. The only ones that I know that ended up being successful were the few that were able to let the "abuse" roll off them like water off a ducks back. I have survived so far but the feelings of isolation seem to grow with every passing year. I have seen psychologists, psychiatrists...been diagnosed bipolar yet it has been refractory...I really just think that RMA messed with our heads too much when we were impressionable teenagers. The damage has been done...I just don't know what it is and where to begin fixing it. Basically...I feel that rather than being empowered by the program it just stripped all my coping skills that are essential to surviving in the REAL WORLD.[ This Message was edited by: OKB4RMA on 2006-01-12 00:34 ]"

[Anonymous]

I am shocked and appauled that as a former therapist you have absolutely nothing else to offer these kids other than a few links.  Have you nothing more to say about any of this?