Daughter out of control again ....

[Perrigaud]

Hmmm. Quitting school. Personally I think it's an irrational decision on her part. If it were my daughter and she was under 18 she'd be going to school. If it came down to her not wanting to go past the age of 18 I'd tell her she could do what she wanted.

[TheWho]

On 2006-01-01 04:38:00, Perrigaud wrote:

"Hmmm. Quitting school. Personally I think it's an irrational decision on her part. If it were my daughter and she was under 18 she'd be going to school. If it came down to her not wanting to go past the age of 18 I'd tell her she could do what she wanted. "

Its difficult to force someone to go to school.

[Anonymous]

not if they are living in YOUR house without paying rent, bills....If you don't want to follow the rules, get a job, get your own place, fix your own meals, figure out your own transportation, have your own life.  And finally be happy following your own rules.

[TheWho]

On 2006-01-01 13:11:00, Anonymous wrote:


"not if they are living in YOUR house without paying rent, bills....If you don't want to follow the rules, get a job, get your own place, fix your own meals, figure out your own transportation, have your own life.  And finally be happy following your own rules."

My daughter came home and had a difficult transition.  She initially went back with her old friends but eventually got bored with them and moved on.  I was worried for awhile but we communicated with each other and new she was in a good space.

[Antigen]

On 2006-01-01 04:38:00, Perrigaud wrote:

"Hmmm. Quitting school. Personally I think it's an irrational decision on her part.

Perri, how could you possibly make such an assessment? You don't even know this girl, you don't know what kind of school we're talking about, what the girls' priorities and passions may be, what other options avail themselves. Hell, we don't even know that this kid is 'troubled', only that her mother seems to think so. And, even at that* her strongest evidence is that this 17.75 yo gal has better things to do with her Sunday mornings than attend church services and doesn't find highschool particularly valuable. Pretty weak, if you ask me.

*Sorry, Truth Searcher. Please don't take offense. I don't really believe w/ full conviction anything a stranger tells me, especially when I know afore hand that they're very emotionally wrapped up in the topic.

The plans of true believers for our lives may well be better than our own when judged against some abstract official standard, but to deny people their personal struggles is to render existence absurd.
http://www.johntaylorgatto.com/chapters/6n.htm' target='_new'>John Taylor Gatto

[Anonymous]

Ouch Antigen....
My strongest evidence is that she has better things to do with her Sunday morning huh?  PLEASE! Well if she's not "troubled" I certainly don't know what standards define "troubled".

Lets recap:
She's dabbled in drugs ... heavy stuff ... pcp ...rx pain killers... meth.  She says shes an addict ... she was voluntarily attending NA meetings.  She has been in 2 drug rehab centers, by her own personal choice.

She's a cutter.  I don't mean scratcher.  I mean her arms look like an atlas.

She's been promiscuous.  I don't mean one or two partners while using protection.  I mean any guy, any where ... and then there are her orientation issues ... and then hating her self afterward.  Mind you I did not say that I struggle with these choices.  But there is so much self-loathing and lack of sense of self that it makes me very sad.

She's been suicidal.  Struggles with it frequently.  Has had the pills laying out on the counter.  Has checked herself into psych wards - twice.

And then there's the failure to thrive in school settings.... which after looking at the preceding list is really a moot point.

The church thing is not that significant.  She has not had a problem with attending church ... we have been very open to her exploring other faiths.  She even asked about reading other sacred texts ... I'm open to that.  She is a spiritual person ... she may or may not choose my faith ... and that is her choice.

And your right ... I'm emotionally wrapped up.  This has been a struggle for this kid for almost 8 fucking (pardon my French yes?)years.  I feel like a totally ineffective parent.  I love my child.  You know what I mean ... you're a mom.

BTW ... she's not 17.75.  She's 17 and a couple months.  In some ways she's wise beyond her years.  In other ways she's very immature.

Her priorities? Staying alive.  

Her passions?  Thats a really good question.  She is passionate about dead rockers ...

She STATES she has no goals.  

I will agree that she finds absolutely no value in high school ... aside from the social opportunities it lends.  And I am at the point where if I have to choose between a relationship with her or waging war over high school, I choose the relationship.  I think in the long run she will be better served.

Go easy on me Antigen ... I'm a broken hearted mom who just loves her kid.

[Truth Searcher]

BTW ... yes that was my post ... I hadn't logged in properly.

[Anonymous]

On 2006-01-01 14:18:00, Antigen wrote:

"

On 2006-01-01 04:38:00, Perrigaud wrote:


"Hmmm. Quitting school. Personally I think it's an irrational decision on her part.

*Sorry, Truth Searcher. Please don't take offense. I don't really believe w/ full conviction anything a stranger tells me, especially when I know afore hand that they're very emotionally wrapped up in the topic.

The plans of true believers for our lives may well be better than our own when judged against some abstract official standard, but to deny people their personal struggles is to render existence absurd.
http://www.johntaylorgatto.com/chapters/6n.htm' target='_new'>John Taylor Gatto

"

I am truly not being a smart ass here, but if this is true, how do you believe ANYTHING anyone posts on here?  Aren't they all pretty much "strangers"?  Even the ones that have posted for a while - they are still really strangers.  You only know what they tell you - they can claim anything they want to. I bet you would be surprised if you knew the real truth about some of these posters.

I have read thru some of these threads and that is the thing that strikes me.  If a "stranger" comes here and posts about what horrors happened, they are immediately believed and accepted.  But if a "stranger" comes here and says they were helped, they are accused of being "programmies".  If someone questions the claims, they are slammed, called names, etc.

Just an observation - truly not truly to start anything and hope it is taken in the spirit in which it is offered.

[The Liger]

I think for people who went to a program, it's easy to believe abuse stories and hard to believe "it saved my life" stories.  We were there and we know what happened.  That's how it is for me anyway.  Not that I believe everything someone says bad about a program.  Some of the things I have heard about staff from the program I was in were hard for me to believe and I had to think about it for a while.  

I also think that the air of secrecy around all of these programs gives way to abuse claims.  If the programs and program supporters don't like it, they should open their doors, sign up for state licensing, and stop trying to hide from public scrutiny.  Otherwise, the claims are totally believable.  There is no way to refute them.

[TheWho]

On 2006-01-01 15:09:00, Anonymous wrote:

"

On 2006-01-01 14:18:00, Antigen wrote:


"

On 2006-01-01 04:38:00, Perrigaud wrote:



"Hmmm. Quitting school. Personally I think it's an irrational decision on her part.

*Sorry, Truth Searcher. Please don't take offense. I don't really believe w/ full conviction anything a stranger tells me, especially when I know afore hand that they're very emotionally wrapped up in the topic.

The plans of true believers for our lives may well be better than our own when judged against some abstract official standard, but to deny people their personal struggles is to render existence absurd.
http://www.johntaylorgatto.com/chapters/6n.htm' target='_new'>John Taylor Gatto

"

I am truly not being a smart ass here, but if this is true, how do you believe ANYTHING anyone posts on here?  Aren't they all pretty much "strangers"?  Even the ones that have posted for a while - they are still really strangers.  You only know what they tell you - they can claim anything they want to. I bet you would be surprised if you knew the real truth about some of these posters.



I have read thru some of these threads and that is the thing that strikes me.  If a "stranger" comes here and posts about what horrors happened, they are immediately believed and accepted.  But if a "stranger" comes here and says they were helped, they are accused of being "programmies".  If someone questions the claims, they are slammed, called names, etc.



Just an observation - truly not truly to start anything and hope it is taken in the spirit in which it is offered."

This is so true.  I have been on and off this site for about a year and each time I mention my experience or offer ways to improve the present situation I was hammered and called names you would not believe, asked to log on as "Mrs Gray" what ever that means and the only hint of defense from anyone was "Dont take it personally, these people have been thru alot".  The anger and hatred is amazing and no one seems to want to change things or help,  I believe most of the people here, if they had to do their lives over again, would choose the same path because they enjoy where they are !!  I just dont get it.  If you dont believe me just try to sign on and offer to help or change things and then sit back and wait for the roar of critisism,  the message is "Dont change a thing, we enjoy posting articles about bad things the programs do, updating lists of those killed, it validates our anger and somehow makes us feel good, please dont take that away from us"!!!

[Anonymous]

There are other teen help forums, if this one bothers you both so much, why do you stay here? I think you guys LOVE to complain about this board, and want nothing to change.  :roll: See how stupid it sounds?

[Anonymous]

"Dont change a thing, we enjoy posting articles about bad things the programs do, updating lists of those killed, it validates our anger and somehow makes us feel good, please dont take that away from us"!!!>>>>

Oh give it a rest.
2005 was a good year.
As I recall 6 or more programs were closed in Mx last year.
Several in the states.
Federal legislation is being proposed.
I'm sure there is more that I'm not thinking of right now.
The activity on this site alone has exploded in the last couple of years. Not to mention the groups that survivors are putting up.
BTW, what are you doing?
Are you the idiot who wants to compare programs with public schools? Go do it, and quit whining because others don't support wasting their time on such a boneheaded idea.

[Anonymous]

On 2006-01-01 15:03:00, Anonymous wrote:


 Well if she's not "troubled" I certainly don't know what standards define "troubled".

She's a cutter.  

She's been promiscuous.

But there is so much self-loathing and lack of sense of self that it makes me very sad.

She's been suicidal.  

And then there's the failure to thrive in school settings

Truth Searcher, This description of your daughter reads like a textbook entry for Borderline Personality Disorder, which you said in an earlier post she was diagnosed with.  You also said you consider that " a label" and you don't value labels.

What if she had some other condition, say...Diabetes...would you treat that as a "label" and just overlook the diagnosis?

Have you taken into consideration the fact that your daughter is in dire need of psychological help even though you aren't willing to consider her condition as true medical condition?  BPD is not just "a cry for help"... it is a REAL and SERIOUS disorder and if she has already been diagnosed as BPD, I'd like to know what the hell you are waiting for in terms of getting her the treatment she needs from a DOCTOR...this is what doctors are for!  She doesn't need "tough love"... she needs love and care and compassion and medical treatment from a competent psychologist/psychiatrist...

[Perrigaud]

Antigen,
  That was my opinion. I never claimed to be right. It is simply what I think. If she wants to get her GED great. If she doesn't...well that will make things more difficult. These days a minimum of a HS degree is becoming more and more standard for employment.

[Nihilanthic]

On 2006-01-02 03:22:00, Perrigaud wrote:

"Antigen,

  That was my opinion. I never claimed to be right. It is simply what I think. If she wants to get her GED great. If she doesn't...well that will make things more difficult. These days a minimum of a HS degree is becoming more and more standard for employment. "

GED was "good enough" for me. Im in college right now (classes restart on the 5th!)

If you mean getting NO education... GED and/or college, then well Id agree thats risky because a lot of people wont take you seriously and it might be hard to find jobs. But I definitely will agree that highschool is in need of fixing, becuase its full of crap right now.

We can easily forgive a child who is afraid
of the dark. The real tragedy of life is
when men are afraid of the light.
--Plato