Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform > World Wide Association of Specialty Programs and Schools (WWASPS)
Another WWASP death
TheWho:
--- Quote ---On 2006-01-09 14:17:00, Exit Plan wrote:
"Note how many kids on the list died of exhaustion related causes and drowning. Those camps actually DID WORK the kids to death. While in the facilities custody.
As far as this kid as hockey camp, he could of left, called 911, or numerous other things that a FREE individual might do if they feel they are being mistreated. This is not an option for those locked away, out of sight, out of mind.
Yes, it's sad the kid decided to take his own life. Did he leave a note saying it was because of this hockey camp? Otherwise how do you know, or do you just suspect, as do those on this thread of WWASP. Should I quote your own first post for you?
Hockey camp is not WWASP. You can walk out of hockey camp. Show me a hockey camp that does restraints to keep teens in line. Or one that engages in three day long hysterical LGAT brainwashing sessions. Or one that locks kids up in disgusting isolation holes for indefinite periods of time until they comply with the program. Show me a hockey camp that keeps you locked up for two years. You can't, because the two just don't compare. If this nightmare hockey camp did exist, it would shut down immediately and on all the nightly newsmagazine television shows.
If there were over a thousand hockey camp alumni out there who were now anti-hockey camp, wouldn't you wonder why? If there were a forum as large and busy as fornits dedicated to the horrors of hockey camps, would you not think twice before sending your teen there? If dozens of major media outlets did extensive articles on the abuse and associated lawsuits related to these hockey camps, would you not pause and wonder if this is the best place to send your teen? I sure would, and I think a lot of other parents would too.
The truth is, the two just aren't comparable. Parents, beware!!
Hands that help are far better then lips that pray.
--Robert G. Ingersoll, American politician and lecturer
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[ This Message was edited by: Exit Plan on 2006-01-09 14:20 ]"
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I am not denying some of these programs are abusive and should be shut down. I think Fomits shows this in volumes.
What I believe takes the wind out of our sails is when we make an uncontrolled list of kids who have died and then start adding names of kids who died after leaving on speculation like: "The boy killed himself because he did not want to go back" or "He killed himself because the program screwed him up".
Parents start seeing this and that is why they dont buy the negative media attention.
kids kill themselves who have never been to a program, in fact for all we know less kids may kill themselves after leaving a program than ones who never attended. We just dont know.
Antigen:
--- Quote ---On 2006-01-09 14:37:00, Anonymous wrote:
kids kill themselves who have never been to a program, in fact for all we know less kids may kill themselves after leaving a program than ones who never attended. We just dont know.
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Sure doesn't look that way from where I sit. Almost everyone I know of who's offed themselves I knew them through the Program. So far, none of my "olddruggiefriends" have done that. Not one. I check from time to time.
Preacher man don't tell me heaven is under the earth; you don't know what life is worth;.......If you know what life is worth, you will look for your's on earth.
--Bob Marley
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69:
--- Quote ---We just dont know.
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I agree with your entire post. Wouldn't it be nice if we did know? It would be nice if states put in their program legislation that they had to keep statistics or something. Until then, the only contact the alumni have is the internet, which is a god-send IMO. Otherwise we'd have no way of ever networking with each other.
Honestly, even if someone did compile the data and proved the amount of suicides post-program, they would just write it off by saying "these kids were already headed that way anyway, we tried out best to prevent it" and shy away from the idea they had helped cause it. So even if there was proof, would it really make a difference? I already know PTSD contributes to suicidal feelings. But that is just me. So who knows.
--- Quote ---kids kill themselves who have never been to a program, in fact for all we know less kids may kill themselves after leaving a program than ones who never attended.
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I agree. I would not come out and say as fact, a kid who killed themsleves after the program did so - unless I knew for sure. One thing worth mentioning however, is the regularity at which these suicide posts come up. In all alumni groups and forums and the internet, this seems to be the case. Although with the information we have now one cannot state this as fact, the underlying feeling is there. It would be nice if we had someway of quantifying it.
The first human who hurled an insult instead of a stone was the founder of civilization.
--Sigmund Freud
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TheWho:
There is growing pressure to reduce the violence and suicide rate among kids in the public sector. RTC and various programs are being investigated as possible solutions. From where they are sitting here is what they see:
"From July 1, 1992 to June 30, 2000, 390 school-associated violent deaths occurred on campuses of U.S. elementary or secondary schools. Of these violent deaths, 234 were homicides and 43 were suicides of school-aged youth (ages 5-19). Away from school during roughly the same period, 24,406 children ages 5-19 were victims of homicide and 16,735 children committed suicide. In each school year, youths were at least 70 times more likely to be murdered away from school than at school.
Almost 17,000 kids killed themselves in the 90's and people are demanding a solution
The suicide rate has been climbing the last few years. If you show a picture of a kid who killed himself they can show you hundreds. If they can off load more of these kids to RTC or programs they feel they can deter some of these kids from violence or killing themselves they will, if they can get the funding.
.
If you say they killed themselves because of the programs owners or counselors they will see it as all smoke from previous program attendees.
The good news is they are looking for a model that works well, not nessecarily WWASPs. The bad news is your message is filled with unregulated data and gut feelings. Decisions are not made based on feelings
TheWho:
--- Quote ---Myself, I prefer to focused on the kids who died in the program, which are numerous. The statistics you quoted above included nothing about how many teachers killed their students.
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Nobody asked, they are just top level stats, no race, gender, locality, teacher kills student, parent kills student, student kills student etc., no speculation on why the students killed themselves, just that they did and at an alarming rate.
Like yourself the officals are interested in reducing the number of kids killed while at school. If they can reduce that number it will look good come re-election time. If programs show a reduced suicide rate then non-programs they will seek funding to send more public sector kids there.
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