Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform > World Wide Association of Specialty Programs and Schools (WWASPS)
Another WWASP death
TheWho:
--- Quote ---On 2006-01-09 11:20:00, Exit Plan wrote:
"
--- Quote ---
"This child is just another example of what youth hockey camp does to kids. This boy attended hockey camp last summer and now he is dead, we should close all hockey camps down!!!".
--- End quote ---
How did that kid die?
Did his coach kill him? Did he kill himself because he couldn't stand practice anymore?
The kids on the list peviously posted in this thread died from staff incorrectly restraining them and the resulting aphysixiation, drownings, and some of common illnesses that no one today should die of.
Did the kid who died at hockey camp die because his coach tackled him and sat on top of him for so long he stopped breathing and died? Because that is how the majority of kids died on the list you are talking about.
There is a big difference between an accident playing sports, and an 'accident' involvolving a staff member subduing a student without proper training causing death.
Even if one player murdered another player - there is still a big difference between that and the situation we are describing here.
Do you still wish to maintain this comparison - if so - how did the hockey player die, is the coach at fault?
God grant me the senility to forget the people I never liked anyway, the good fortune to run into the ones I do, and the eyesight to tell the difference.
Perl Services
--- End quote ---
[ This Message was edited by: Exit Plan on 2006-01-09 11:23 ]"
--- End quote ---
--- Quote ---Do you still wish to maintain this comparison - if so - how did the hockey player die, is the coach at fault?
--- End quote ---
Yes, He died at home 3 months after he came home from camp, by suicide. The coach was tough on him and made him skate every day when he was running a fever.
Anonymous:
--- Quote ---The coach was tough on him and made him skate every day when he was running a fever.
--- End quote ---
And would send your kid to play for this team?
I wouldn't. And I wouldn't send them to SCL either (which is 100 times worse).
That's the whole point.
TheWho:
--- Quote ---On 2006-01-09 13:09:00, Antigen wrote:
"
--- Quote ---
On 2006-01-09 10:31:00, Anonymous wrote:
Antigen -- How can you possibly connect his death to SCL?
--- End quote ---
Oh, I can't and I don't. How can you possibly connect these thousands of glowing parent testimonials to anything to do with these programs? You can't. They're meaningless. Fraudulent advertising, if ya ask me.
Same w/ a lot of the recent grads. Ya' know, when I got out of Straight during one of the more notorious HRS investigations, they asked me if I had been abused. I didn't know that I had been and so I declined to involve myself in the criminal investigation. Took me some years to understand that I didn't 'do all the necessary things' to get my nose busted and get sat on by half a dozen girls for a couple of hours just for refusing to make an incincere apology to Group for having tried to escape their 'help'.
In a culture based on the oppressive notion that people should be exploited for profit most people can't afford to understand what happened to us in str8.
starry-eyed pirate
--- End quote ---
"
--- End quote ---
I believe every instance is independent and different. Some kids come out and do poorly at first and then improve others just the opposite. Some commit suicide and others thrive and have a happy life. Some kids that do well have parents who think they are doing lousy because they have different expectations and vice versa.
Testimonials are factual for the person giving them , at that time. The parents may say the program wasnt worth a penny because their kid came home and moved out, but in accuality the kid is doing excellent, happy, has a job, independent. Other parents may think their kid is doing well and give a positive testimonial and 2 months later he takes his own life.
The kids that do well.... is that due to just time, natural maturity which would have happened anyway without going to a program?
The kids that do poorly or take their lives..... is that the way they are, a chemical imbalance, what would have happened anyway without going to a program?
I dont think we know
TheWho:
--- Quote ---On 2006-01-09 13:46:00, Anonymous wrote:
"
--- Quote ---The coach was tough on him and made him skate every day when he was running a fever.
--- End quote ---
And would send your kid to play for this team?
I wouldn't. And I wouldn't send them to SCL either (which is 100 times worse).
That's the whole point."
--- End quote ---
No you missed the entire point.
We cannot conclude that the hockey camp caused this kid to kill himself
How can you make that connection? It might have been depression or 100 other social stimuli that causes kids to take their own lives. There is no connection to SCL the same as there is no connection the the kids death and the hockey camp
69:
Note how many kids on the list died of exhaustion related causes and drowning. Those camps actually DID WORK the kids to death. While in the facilities custody.
As far as this kid as hockey camp, he could of left, called 911, or numerous other things that a FREE individual might do if they feel they are being mistreated. This is not an option for those locked away, out of sight, out of mind.
Yes, it's sad the kid decided to take his own life. Did he leave a note saying it was because of this hockey camp? Otherwise how do you know, or do you just suspect, as do those on this thread of WWASP. Should I quote your own first post for you?
Hockey camp is not WWASP. You can walk out of hockey camp. Show me a hockey camp that does restraints to keep teens in line. Or one that engages in three day long hysterical LGAT brainwashing sessions. Or one that locks kids up in disgusting isolation holes for indefinite periods of time until they comply with the program. Show me a hockey camp that keeps you locked up for two years. You can't, because the two just don't compare. If this nightmare hockey camp did exist, it would shut down immediately and on all the nightly newsmagazine television shows.
If there were over a thousand hockey camp alumni out there who were now anti-hockey camp, wouldn't you wonder why? If there were a forum as large and busy as fornits dedicated to the horrors of hockey camps, would you not think twice before sending your teen there? If dozens of major media outlets did extensive articles on the abuse and associated lawsuits related to these hockey camps, would you not pause and wonder if this is the best place to send your teen? I sure would, and I think a lot of other parents would too.
The truth is, the two just aren't comparable. Parents, beware!!
PS: Personally, I don't attribute the suicide to SCL until we know. If we ever do. Although, I do know from my own experience there is better treatment out there, and if he was sent somewhere else, that could of made a serious difference.
PSS: It's equally sickening WWASP puts their information up on the web like that. I wonder if they even know?
Hands that help are far better then lips that pray.
--Robert G. Ingersoll, American politician and lecturer
--- End quote ---
[ This Message was edited by: Exit Plan on 2006-01-09 15:03 ]
Navigation
[0] Message Index
[#] Next page
[*] Previous page
Go to full version