Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform > CEDU / Brown Schools and derivatives / clones
RMA staff I remember from RMA, you post yours from CEDU
elanasshole:
--- Quote from: "Samara" ---Whooter: Why are you here? You live here at Fornits, and the only thing you do is poke at program survivors. Why would you spend your time doing it? It is sadistic. And non sensical. If I thought a site was full of hooey, you could not pay me to live there.
--- End quote ---
@ Samara : Whooter: Why are you here? Whooter works on his play-doh, pay dough and pedo parenting skills.[/size]
Paul St. John:
--- Quote ---It's called brainwash. I've met many a successful anti program person and many unsuccessful pro program people and vice versa. Whether you made it out ok or not is irrelevant to the question of whether sustained program abuse is acceptable.
I find it hard to believe that they call it brainwashing. The only place I ever hear that is here on fornits. We all agree that abuse is not acceptable. The problem is with the definition and whether or not abuse occurred. So are you saying that you have meet people who were helped by the program or not? That didn’t come out very clear to me.
--- End quote ---
Since, you seem interested, I think I understand.. I hope the two of you do not mind me interjecting.
The following 3 points I think were made, all of which I personally, think are valid.
1. Whether you are for or against programs does not necessarily dictate whether or not, you will be successful in life.
2. Whether or not, you do well after leaving a program is also not necessarily evidence of anything in regards to the program, because there is no certainty that the program was causal.
3. Even if you do, do well after leaving a program, that does not justify the abuse that occurred in the program.
It was a bit unclear, but that is whta I took from it. Samara, I m not trying to speak for you or anything. Sorry, if my interpretation is incorrect.
Paul
Awake:
--- Quote from: "Paul St. John" ---
--- Quote ---It's called brainwash. I've met many a successful anti program person and many unsuccessful pro program people and vice versa. Whether you made it out ok or not is irrelevant to the question of whether sustained program abuse is acceptable.
I find it hard to believe that they call it brainwashing. The only place I ever hear that is here on fornits. We all agree that abuse is not acceptable. The problem is with the definition and whether or not abuse occurred. So are you saying that you have meet people who were helped by the program or not? That didn’t come out very clear to me.
--- End quote ---
Since, you seem interested, I think I understand.. I hope the two of you do not mind me interjecting.
The following 3 points I think were made, both of which I personally, think are valid.
1. Whether you are for or against programs does not necessarily dictate whether or not, you will be successful in life.
2. Whether or not, you do well after leaving a program is also not necessarily evidence of anything in regards to the program, because there is no certainty that the program was causal.
3. Even if you do, do well after leaving a program, that does not justify the abuse that occurred in the program.
It was a bit unclear, but that is whta I took from it. Samara, I m not trying to speak for you or anything. Sorry, if my interpretation is incorrect.
Paul
--- End quote ---
I don't know if you speak for her but you took the words right outta my mouth. :nods:
Samara:
Exactly. Successful, not successful, pain in the ass child of the world - it is wrong.
Anne Bonney:
--- Quote from: "Whooter" --- No matter how much you try you can never know what it is like to be a program parent. But you pretend to know sometimes. So it needs to be able to go both ways. I can see things and pick up things that you would never be able to because you never saw a successful child complete a program.
--- End quote ---
You're right. I've never abdicated my parental responsibilities as you did. I have, however, successfully raised two grown children, one of which scared the life out of me for years on end. Somehow, we managed without the abusive, emotional blackmail tactics of programs. I knew from my experience inside programs that the worst thing I could do for her would be to send her off to a mindfuck. As much as she scared me, it was MY job to help guide her through it. It was the single hardest thing I've ever done, but sooooooo worth it. I never broke the sacred trust with her the way program parents do when they send them away. She and I both knew that I couldn't save her, she had to save herself with her family's help and the help of some true professionals. She and I both knew that forcing her to change would've resulted in temporary changes that wouldn't mean anything, not to mention the aforementioned loss of trust.
--- Quote ---You need to be a little bit more tolerant and open minded about other peoples experiences and points of view imo.
--- End quote ---
You need to man up and cite where you think I said anything about exaggerating my experiences in Straight.
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