Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform > World Wide Association of Specialty Programs and Schools (WWASPS)
Press Briefing in DC
AtomicAnt:
--- Quote ---On 2005-10-20 15:16:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Who is fooling who?
1. The mental health industry has been shrinking (no pun intended) for decades in part due to medications and fix all drugs (Prozac etc.) which you can get from your primary MD. Do you think they want to jump in and shut everything down? No way, they want oversight, to put there controls in, do control studies, look at how many kids do well how many fail. Improve the system and create jobs for their field.
2. The government on the other hand isn?t going to get involved to shut things down either. That has never happened once (look at smoking) They want regulation they want a piece of it. They aren?t going to spend tax payers dollars to shut things down. The parents will send their kids off shore.
3. These private schools couldn?t get a loan from a bank to by a paint brush. It is all private money. The banks dont want to get involved because it is too risky, someone could sue and shut the whole school down. So once the feds regulate and put the "Good housekeeping seal" on some of these places, the banks will get loan guarantees and start lending these schools money so they can expand.
4. If the Feds guarantee the loans they are going to want the schools to accept low income kids.
5. If the feds and mental health people see a benefit after monitoring these schools for a few years BCBS and other insurers and the like will be forced to consider paying a portion if deemed necessary by a school or doctor.
6. The more schools that open the lower the price will get and the more affordable it will become for middle income families (thats the target audience) Right now there is a need but the private schools are too expensive for most.
7. Some of the lower end schools like I have heard about str8, seed etc. will probably go under and some of the higher end school will have to offer something special to stay in buisness but the majority will grow and thrive.
8. If people are mortgaging their houses and future to purchase somethign and it continues to grow the government is going to step in and try to get their shre thru regulation etc.
Do you really think all this is happening so they can shut an industry down?
How many think the teen help industry will be gone in 10 years, raise your hands...."
--- End quote ---
Point 1 is patently false. Please provide some evidence. The fact is that the mental health industry is expanding with more licensed professionals than ever.
Point 3 is also false. There are some big banks attracted to the industry because of the guaranteed cash flow. Since the parents pay up front, they do not have to hassle with HMOs or insurance companies that place limits on what they will pay for and demand itemized documentation. HMOs and Insurance companies do not pay for these programs because they lack the basic billing processes and detailed accountabilty of treatments that are required. In many HMOs, a therapist is required to provide a diagnosis, a treatment plan, and outline the number of sesssions required. Once those sessions are over and the therapist/patient feel more is needed this must be justified all over again to the HMO.
Point 8. The government is not that proactive. They tend only to get involved when constituents complain loudly enough that they have no choice.
Point 2. Let's look at smoking. The courts stepped in and made it okay to sue the tobacco companies for the illness they caused. Local and state laws have pretty much banned smoking in public places (at least here in NY/NJ). There are laws against sales and advertising to minors. The taxes are so high that the price of cigarettes alone is reason enough to quit. In other words, they working pretty hard to shut down this industry.
AtomicAnt:
--- Quote ---On 2005-10-20 13:56:00, Dolphin wrote:
"Sounds to me like another misquote...Ken said what???
Anyone that reads newspapers and magazines or watches news reports can see that it's all about selling stories, not about the truth. Too bad. Many reporters could make a huge impact in more positive ways than writing stories that could eventually kill teens beceause the parents believed the crap the reporters wrote and didn't get effective help.
My opinion of the ?These people who want to stop all the progress because they have all the answers are wackos. They are just out of control,? Kay said."... is: He wasn't saying that all the doctors, etc, were wackos. I read it as he was saying the ones that don't know the truth are just blindly believing reports like ISAC, or other slam sights (like this one) and not talking with even a few of the hundreds of families that had positive results. All they want to do is save their drug prescribing practices...
If they put out a message to these families, they would be happy to talk and Not the ones handpicked by Ken Kay or other program executives. "
--- End quote ---
He said exactly what he said. You are only making an attempt at damage control. The fact is the man lost his cool and said something stupid. He should be put into OP for that.
TheWho:
--- Quote ---On 2005-10-22 07:48:00, AtomicAnt wrote:
"
--- Quote ---
On 2005-10-20 15:16:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Who is fooling who?
1. The mental health industry has been shrinking (no pun intended) for decades in part due to medications and fix all drugs (Prozac etc.) which you can get from your primary MD. Do you think they want to jump in and shut everything down? No way, they want oversight, to put there controls in, do control studies, look at how many kids do well how many fail. Improve the system and create jobs for their field.
2. The government on the other hand isn?t going to get involved to shut things down either. That has never happened once (look at smoking) They want regulation they want a piece of it. They aren?t going to spend tax payers dollars to shut things down. The parents will send their kids off shore.
3. These private schools couldn?t get a loan from a bank to by a paint brush. It is all private money. The banks dont want to get involved because it is too risky, someone could sue and shut the whole school down. So once the feds regulate and put the "Good housekeeping seal" on some of these places, the banks will get loan guarantees and start lending these schools money so they can expand.
4. If the Feds guarantee the loans they are going to want the schools to accept low income kids.
5. If the feds and mental health people see a benefit after monitoring these schools for a few years BCBS and other insurers and the like will be forced to consider paying a portion if deemed necessary by a school or doctor.
6. The more schools that open the lower the price will get and the more affordable it will become for middle income families (thats the target audience) Right now there is a need but the private schools are too expensive for most.
7. Some of the lower end schools like I have heard about str8, seed etc. will probably go under and some of the higher end school will have to offer something special to stay in buisness but the majority will grow and thrive.
8. If people are mortgaging their houses and future to purchase somethign and it continues to grow the government is going to step in and try to get their shre thru regulation etc.
Do you really think all this is happening so they can shut an industry down?
How many think the teen help industry will be gone in 10 years, raise your hands...."
--- End quote ---
Point 1 is patently false. Please provide some evidence. The fact is that the mental health industry is expanding with more licensed professionals than ever.
Point 3 is also false. There are some big banks attracted to the industry because of the guaranteed cash flow. Since the parents pay up front, they do not have to hassle with HMOs or insurance companies that place limits on what they will pay for and demand itemized documentation. HMOs and Insurance companies do not pay for these programs because they lack the basic billing processes and detailed accountabilty of treatments that are required. In many HMOs, a therapist is required to provide a diagnosis, a treatment plan, and outline the number of sesssions required. Once those sessions are over and the therapist/patient feel more is needed this must be justified all over again to the HMO.
Point 8. The government is not that proactive. They tend only to get involved when constituents complain loudly enough that they have no choice.
Point 2. Let's look at smoking. The courts stepped in and made it okay to sue the tobacco companies for the illness they caused. Local and state laws have pretty much banned smoking in public places (at least here in NY/NJ). There are laws against sales and advertising to minors. The taxes are so high that the price of cigarettes alone is reason enough to quit. In other words, they working pretty hard to shut down this industry."
--- End quote ---
Point 2:
Yes but they have known for 40 or 50 years that it is harmful but our teens still buy them. If TBS are showing that they are ineffective or abusing children 50 years from now I would expect the same response, but it seems like a long time to react.
The response to my other points I am sorry but I dont agree.
AtomicAnt:
Point 3 Troubled Teen Industry as big business:
http://www.thinkequity.com/about/articl ... 81705.html
The field began to commercialize in the mid-1990's. In 1998, the Sprout Group and Frazier Healthcare Ventures of Seattle bought the majority of Aspen, a company with a handful of programs at that time but with major plans to expand. In 2002, Warburg Pincus invested $15 million in Aspen; around the same time, the company received at least $48 million in loans from CapitalSource and Caltius Mezzanine, two companies that specialize in lending to small and midsize companies.
Investors are particularly drawn to the field because it is almost entirely supported by individual payments rather than being dependent on public financing. "I've been in the private equity business for 15 years, and I don't like to invest in companies where, with one strike of a pen, you can wipe out your business," said Nader J. Naini, a general partner with Frazier Healthcare and also the chairman of Aspen's board.
[ This Message was edited by: AtomicAnt on 2005-10-22 16:18 ]
TheWho:
--- Quote ---On 2005-10-22 16:15:00, AtomicAnt wrote:
"Point 3 Troubled Teen Industry as big business:
http://www.thinkequity.com/about/articl ... 81705.html
The field began to commercialize in the mid-1990's. In 1998, the Sprout Group and Frazier Healthcare Ventures of Seattle bought the majority of Aspen, a company with a handful of programs at that time but with major plans to expand. In 2002, Warburg Pincus invested $15 million in Aspen; around the same time, the company received at least $48 million in loans from CapitalSource and Caltius Mezzanine, two companies that specialize in lending to small and midsize companies.
Investors are particularly drawn to the field because it is almost entirely supported by individual payments rather than being dependent on public financing. "I've been in the private equity business for 15 years, and I don't like to invest in companies where, with one strike of a pen, you can wipe out your business," said Nader J. Naini, a general partner with Frazier Healthcare and also the chairman of Aspen's board.
[ This Message was edited by: AtomicAnt on 2005-10-22 16:18 ]"
--- End quote ---
Yes I agree, there is plenty of money out there but they are venture capitalists not banks. You borrow money from a bank and make your payments on time no one will bother you. You get money from a venture capitalist and they want a piece of the action, one of their people on the board, attend all your meetings etc, and all of a sudden you are not in control of your own destiny, I am not saying it is a bad thing.
Its like getting a car loan from a guy who may call you up and say you cant drive your car that day because there is a big storm coming and it is too risky for him to let you, you may or may not agree but you have to comply or he may ask for his money back and if you sell you car at a profit he will want some of that too not just what you borrowed.
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