Anchor Academy for Boys in Havre, Montana.

[Antigen]

Yeah, I get it. That's what I meant by that snide tax reference.

Bottom line is this, I know you think this is the better, safer option. But if you look into the backgrounds of the people to whom you've entrusted your son's safety and care, you may change your mind.

I'm sorry, but there are no guarantees. Either way is wrought with dangers. Either way may result in dismal failure or great triumph over adversity. But isn't it silly to pay someone to provide a contrived sort of adversity from which your son to learn? This gives you no net advantage over letting him find his own organic risks in the wild and carries the overwhelming liability of your being the immediate cause of whatever happens.

Sooner or later, he's going to start growing up for real; coming to terms w/ mistakes and their consequences and planning, in a concrete way, how to take care of himself and what kind of adult to be. Most kids rather need the support of their parents through this, though it gets more esoteric and less financial as you go. I know it meant the WORLD to me as I was striking out on my own that my Dad was no longer in support of the Program. He was no longer going around trying to fix or control me. Instead, he was happy to offer a cup of coffee and friendly conversation whenever I turned up.

Even when I turned up pregnant by an obviously abusive loser, he had quit trying to fix me and just went back to wishing me luck and being on my side. I fixed my own life in my own way. It would have been far and away more difficult for me had my dad never quit medaling in the process.

Just my .02

The road to hell is paved with good intentions. The people who ran straight had the best of intentions. I hope they reached their destination.

http://stopsembler.org/' target='_new'>James Lloyd

[Nihilanthic]

Just wondering... are you treating the problem or the symptoms?

Behavior modification to change his behavior doesnt do anything for the underlying issues. I realize your immediate concern is "drugs, stealing" bla bla bla, the typical stuff the programs are catering to the fears of ( a lot of the time the FEAR of kids doing it gets them sent to programs, not the actual action!).

You saw brat camp, right? You know how wilderness programs work, right? Tricked into coming in or FORCED to come in, forced to sign off on some BS paper, and then youre forced to physically exert yourself, endure crap, and the stress of that + the stress from the councelors (pushing buttons) so you basically get pushed until you break emotionally. Generally they get mad or have a crying breakdown or whatever.

So now, hes in a program, right? DUH hes gonna say hes 'proud he accomplished in it' because thats part of the deal. You have to agree with the shit in the brochures and 'work the program' to get out, even if its bullshit or simply a case of not being needed or necessary. Sure, if you survive shit you might be sure of yourself... but engineered, artificial hardship to 'overcome' is still just fake life experience.

I mean shit, its not as if he can leave or ask you pick him up, is it? So how would you know what he REALLY thinks? You DO know what happens if you say anything bad about the program, riiight? You get pusnished for 'manipulating.

Seriously, this place is teaching CREATIONISM. How hard would it be to imagine their whole model is to indoctrinate and make him repeat their dogma and act good before he gets out. So yeah, if you want him to be trained into obedience and spout Anchor's bullshit... well, there ya go.

Hell, while Im posting - please, share with us what kind of communication you and him have. Can you or have you shown up unannounced? Are his calls or letters monitored or censored? Did they say not to listen if he said anything bad because its manipulative?

My opinions may have changed, but not the fact that I am right.
-- Ashleigh Brilliant

[Desparate Dad]

My son is not in the program. If you actually read what I write instead of glance through it, you would have read that he completed Catherine Freer over a year ago. He hated the program, but by the way he talked about it and the stories he tells about it (still tells, by the way) it was an experience that is still showing positive effects and he IS proud of completing the program, enduring and thriving through the hardships of the program.  I know you said forced exercise, bland food etc....how about your last hike in the woods and enjoying nature....did you hike to a secluded campsite and eat freeze-dried stew or is your idea of camping in a  36' motorhome with microwave and color tv?  Nothing personal, but I think you are such an idiot....it's hard to take anyone seriously when they take a name from a computer game.....let's talk about the real world....of all the people "contributing" to this forum, you have the least amount of credibility to me....

[Anonymous]

On 2005-10-13 15:59:00, Desparate Dad wrote:

"Thanks for your concern....he has been in 3 outpatient programs including one that he claims to like to be in....but he goes for 1 week....then refuses to go.....gets in trouble with the court, the court tells him to go back...so he goes for 1-2 days...then he is out again...drinking, drugging, dealing and stealing...Outpatient help....alternative schools....counselors......vacations......twice weekly ski outings in the winter.....seasons passes to local amusement parks......and I am the one taking him, his sister, their friends everywhere....I haev tried time all together...time just one-on-one.....I have taken time from work...for weeks at a time trying to find what he needs....and it seems what he needs most is himself and a belief in himself that he can succeed....something Catherine Freer gave him.....he did NOT enjoy the program, but he suer was proud of what he accomplished on that 12 day trip through the wilderness."

2 kids have died at Catherine Freer programs.  One in Oregon (tree branch fell on him) and another in the Nevada based program.

Oh well.  Your son was one of the lucky ones. Did you enroll him before or after the deaths?

:smokin:

[Desparate Dad]

I forgot to address a couple of your comments. NO, I have never seen Brat Camp...heard about it from a few people, but I don't glue myself to the TV.....and Creationism.....been around longer than darwinian stuff....and creationism doesn't rule out evolution....or "the evolving of a species to better adapt to its environment...it just doesn't say that humans evolved from apes...that we were created as unique beings....and it doesn't say that humans were created exactly as they exist today.....
One last thing....please try to make ONE post without using profanity.....it shows your ignorance when you have to use it to express yourself.

[Desparate Dad]

wasn't aware of the Nevada death....I was aware of the death of the youth when the tree (or branch) fell on him.  Should we blame a program for the death?  It was very unfortunate and I feel for the parents of the teen.  I don't see how a program can be held to blame for an accident such as that.....What about the Boy Scouts that were killed by lightening at the Jamboree this past summer....is the Boy Scout program to blame for that?  Should we disband them also?

[Nihilanthic]

:roll: its hard to take someone serious when his online name is "Desperate dad" Are you SERIOUS? I just came up with this randomly several years ago because I needed an online name. You're REAL original yourself  :wink:

Anyway, back to the actual reasons youre here:

Ok, I didnt read all your posts. Thats my fault. I've been busy all day and I didnt have time to follow the whole thread, so I got some splainin' to do. I just assumed the usual program parent schpiel. So, I must apologize to you, and then thank you for not being like that! It kind of grates on my nerves when children are sent to programs for being gay, talking back, skipping school, etc.

Anywho, if the whole point of wildneress programs is to keep them in their custody and force them to endure hardships... uh... why the hell not just let him go endure real life? Im sure it can be cathartic to have the suffering END, and THEN look back on it and go "yeah, I can survive it" but I doubt that suffering in and of itself is something therapeutic or safely guaranteed to not simply cause more damage and suffering. Hell, why not just beat him your damn self and then at the end go "see, you survived!"

If your son went in, and then came back out better for it, then Im DEFINTELY happy for him and yourself. Im just inherantly distrustful of something that amounts to lying or kidnapping to put a child with some people that give them crappy food and make them march around and exert themself and get their buttons pushed so they have emotional episodes, and then turns into just the start of the program pipeline and feeds into some "residential" place.

Well, that and I think theres more to his turnaround than just spending a few weeks shitting in a hole and smelling like B.O. and oatmeal.

Until you've lost your reputation,you never realize what a burden it was or what freedom really is.

 


http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/068483068X/circlofmiamithem' target='_new'>MARGARET MITCHELL

[Nihilanthic]

On 2005-10-13 16:54:00, Desparate Dad wrote:

"wasn't aware of the Nevada death....I was aware of the death of the youth when the tree (or branch) fell on him.  Should we blame a program for the death?  It was very unfortunate and I feel for the parents of the teen.  I don't see how a program can be held to blame for an accident such as that.....What about the Boy Scouts that were killed by lightening at the Jamboree this past summer....is the Boy Scout program to blame for that?  Should we disband them also?"

We're talking about children and teenagers being pushed physically until they literally drop and die, while the "councelors" say "oh theyre FAKING and MANIPULATING, no, DONT give them shade or water!"

Its happened many, many times. And yeah, generally, they ARE ACCOUNTABLE FOR THEIR SAFETY. Falling branches I will admit are kind of hard to predict unless the branch is simply obviously about to break, but marching someone until they die is completely preventable.

The overwhelming majority of people have more than the average (mean) number of legs.  
-- E. Grebenik

[Desparate Dad]

This accident occured during the night. They had all dug snow caves to sleep in.....while they were all asleep.......well.....Hard to hold anyone at fault for that, in my estimation.

[Anonymous]

So because a program forced children into snow caves ... to learn about themselves and a child ironically was killed by a "falling branch/tree" isn't the programs fault? If a box falls and kills someone at a Dept. store, is it not the fault of the store? or wrong place/wrong time? Act of "God" maybe?
 Maybe it was the parents fault for the child being in that enviroment in the first place. Or is it possible the truth was covered up at all? I wouldn't take those kind of  chances with my kid's life.

[Anonymous]

Rule #1... you don't set up your tent, or ice cave, under branches that are heavily laden with snow.
What, they didn't know? I bet they do now. Or, let's hope they learned from their mistake. A mistake that carried no consequence.

[Anonymous]

The news article said the boy was killed when a tree branch heavily laden with snow fell on his tent.

Why were these children allowed to pitch a tent under a tree heavily laden with snow?

The branch broke (caused by the heavy snow) and fell on the boy, killing him.

This was a PREVENTABLE ACCIDENT resulting in death not an unforseen, tragic act of nature.

As for the other death, that was a young girl who died as a direct result of her participation in the CF program, as well.

:smokin:

[Anonymous]

On 2005-10-13 16:41:00, Desparate Dad wrote:

"My son is not in the program. If you actually read what I write instead of glance through it, you would have read that he completed Catherine Freer over a year ago. He hated the program, but by the way he talked about it and the stories he tells about it (still tells, by the way) it was an experience that is still showing positive effects and he IS proud of completing the program, enduring and thriving through the hardships of the program.  I know you said forced exercise, bland food etc....how about your last hike in the woods and enjoying nature....did you hike to a secluded campsite and eat freeze-dried stew or is your idea of camping in a  36' motorhome with microwave and color tv?  Nothing personal, but I think you are such an idiot....it's hard to take anyone seriously when they take a name from a computer game.....let's talk about the real world....of all the people "contributing" to this forum, you have the least amount of credibility to me...."

Nothing personal, but even an idiot knows how to spell DESPERATE  :rofl:

[Anonymous]

Search WWF for Catherine Freer. There's quite a bit of info here.

You could start by reading the program's press release about what happened:
http://www.strugglingteens.com/news/cfpressrelease.html

Then read a statement from Erica Harvey's mom here:
http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?to ... t=10#49114

Having read both, how could ANYone believe the statement provided by CFW to be accurate?
No way in hell did that girl die due to hypothermia and dehydration from hiking "3 MILES".  :rofl:

Kids in wilderness programs are guinea pigs. The programs are playing russian roulette with your child. As someone else pointed out, you were one of the lucky ones, rather your son was. There wasn't a bullet in the chamber on his turn. Fifty some other kids weren't so lucky.

[Pastor]

On 2005-10-13 15:53:00, Antigen wrote:

" But the people who run the place have a long and sordid history.

"

You don't know that to be true!