Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform > The Seed Discussion Forum

In Re : Physical Abuse v. Psychological Abuse

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FueLaw:
Unfortunately the postings about physical abuse have been taken out of context. I am not trying to say that the physical abuse of the kids in the program was a cornerstone of the program. In addition I am not insinuating that it occured on a regular basis. However, I am saying that it happend. Any former staff member who denies this is simply not telling the truth.

From time to time kids would try to bolt. The were physically restrained and in some cases literally dragged back to the group or to the offices and then to the group. I can remember seeing kids get half way across the race track, at Tropical Park race track, and then dragged back forcefully.

Other times kids parents were brought in to beat or disipline their kids. This happend in the offices away from the group. As I indicated in other post because I was a small guy I would be assigned to bathroom sign in, as oppossed to sitting at a regular security post or door, and I could hear, not see, the beatings. There were blood curdling screams coming from the offices.

On other occassions staff members simply lost their cool and racked up a kid. I am not saying they broke any bones or caused permanent physical damage. In my particular case I was physically tackled to the ground,held down by Robert Chun and a staffer named Mike, and had my hair cut, while screaming, crying and kicking, by a female staff member. This occured at Tropical Park. Chun also knocked the crap out of me a few times at SR 84.  John Underwood also would do crap like twist me by the ears , or grab me by the back of the neck, and physically drag me from the group. He never punched me in the mouth or broke any bones.

Having said all that, it is basically irrelevant to this discussion. The real harm of the Seed, Straight and others that followed was the psychological harm. This was a thousand times worse than being slapped around a little or being bounced off a few walls. The psychological damage last forever. That is what draws people to this website.

The whole notion or premise of the Seed and other copy cat programs is so ill concieved, in terms of the pyschological dimensions, that it is mind boggling. The "one size fits all" or "this is the way to straighten out kids/young adults" approach is a farce. Everybody is different but the Seed didnt take that approach. It was a "CULT" in every sense of the word. Everybody had to buy into to the same shit or face the fury of the staff and group. As a 14-15 year old, my age when in the program, this had a dramtic and profound effect on my life. Being in the program over a year didnt help much either. Why Underwood and others cant see it is beyond comprehension.

While I realize it will never happen, but I would bet a legitimate psychological study would reveal a high level of some kind of post traumatic stress symtoms among the young participants of the Seed. In other words alot of the psychological damage didnt rear its ugly head until years later. The participants probably needed more help after they completed the program than prior to their entry in it.



[ This Message was edited by:  on 2005-09-11 07:11 ]

Antigen:
Thanks for posting that, FueLaw.

One other thing I've been curious about for years. I remember talk of this. But, of course, I was very young and not directly involved. Does anyone else remember the (likely short lived) practice of snagging potential intakes off the street? The way I remember it, it went something like this. A kid would be compelled to rat out his or her friends in rap. A goon squad would be organized to get details, like favorite hang outs or best places and times to catch the unsuspecting inductee when vulnerable. Then the squad would go out and snag the kid off the street, brow beat a confession out of them and then call the parents saying "Mrs. Smith, we have your son Johnny here. He's told us he's on drugs and wants help getting off them. Would you come down and sign some papers?"

Anybody else remember anything about that?
For the community to have 10% to 25% of its men unable to vote or unable to access credit or other privileges of citizenship for the rest of their lives in some states creates a permanently diminished
group within society.
Jeremy Travis, Urban Institute
--- End quote ---

Napolean Bonafart:
David M... and John T... and the rest of them did exactly this to me. This is how I woundup in the Seed.
Never underestimate the power of the status quo...America's schools are part of government, subject to public whim and will.  By and large, we have the kind of schools that people want. While they acknowledge the need for improvement, in other people's schools, most American are reasonably content with their own.
--Former public school superintendent Ronald J. Perry, 1992.
--- End quote ---


_________________
"They will not bury us for this, I'm fighting the Red Skull, everyday"

FueLaw:
Ginger,

It seems to me that the kids parents had a role in that too. In other words a kid would come in and rat out his friends. (This was all done in the name of honesty which was the first and most important rule) Then the kids parent would go talk to the druggie kids parents and the some of the friends wound up on the front row. The prospective kids parent would be encouraged to come to open meetings and they would be taken by all the testimonials of the newcomers and then put their kids in.  This is one of the ways the Seed increased their enrollment.

I dont have any first hand info on the goon squads. I do remember hearing similar stories from the time period between 1972-1974, which was a big growth period for the Seed.

GregFL:
yes it happened in St Pete as well.  In fact, it was witnessed by Teachers and students at one St Pete School and the girl was actually harmed as she was snatched by a group of seed parents and dragged kicking and screaming FROM SCHOOL PROPERTY direct to the seed.  Art Barker disavovowed the practice in a quote to the paper.

Fuelaw, I never saw a staff member actually hit a kid, but I saw them throw kids to the floor when they tried to escape, and the practice of bringing parents into the back offices to smack around misbehaviors was documented and a well known practice in the early seed, at least in st pete.

keeping kids captive was a real integral part of the early seed, and to keep any human captive requires physical threats and restraints. Those that deny this occured are denying reality.

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