Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform > World Wide Association of Specialty Programs and Schools (WWASPS)
Genreal Discussion on the WWASP Parent's BBS??
Nihilanthic:
--- Quote ---On 2005-11-19 09:33:00, Anonymous wrote:
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On 2005-11-18 13:57:00, Antigen wrote:
"Well what have they got to hide? If the program works so good, they why do they have to spend so much time and effort putting down dissenting views?
Chi, glad your daughter is doing so well. I sure wish there were more like you.
Were the power of Congress to be established in the latitude contended for, it would subvert the very foundation, and transmute the very nature of the limited Government established by the people of America.
James Madison
--- End quote ---
"
--- End quote ---
The programs work "good" because they don't spend time and money supporting the work of their enemies. Say whatever you want, but don't expect me to buy you a microphone. If you had a neighbor you hated, would you be pissy about him not inviting you into his house to bitch at him?
The BBS is to SUPPORT the parents, not trash them. That in no way implies anything to hide. It just implies the programs aren't run by idiots.
:wave: "
--- End quote ---
"They work good because they dont support their enemies". Huh? Thats all you need to do to 'work'? Why not explain how a program works, or demonstrate such with facts - and no, WWASPS press releases of 90-something% success rate dont appply. Unbaised 3rd party stuff would though, got any?
"The BBS is to SUPPORT the parents, not trash them". Uh, who the fuck would admit what theyre doing wrong to their own customer base? Nobody here is accusing WWASPS of being STUPID, baghead. But, thanks for explaining that theyre not idiots.
Regarding the fact that its nothing more than a regime of mind control that works via milieu control, stressors to cause psychological regression (having constant 24/7 humiliation and fear, the seminars, and turning their parents against them) and a level based system to ensure conformity within their little pocket universe, youve done nothing to address that or discredit that.
We meet every day in school a reflection of the national leadership class displaying every indication it has abandoned its fundamental American obligation to raise ordinary people up, becoming instead an overseas transmitter of the original mother ideas of England.
John Taylor Gatto
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Anonymous:
My experience has been individual who so musch as QUESTION what they feel may be something odd about why and how come about the program they were booted.
No trahing wa snecessary.Off they went.
Try and tell it to someone who doesnt KNOW the TRUTH.
Pathetic fool.
Anonymous:
QUOTE: Regarding the fact that its nothing more than a regime of mind control that works via milieu control, stressors to cause psychological regression (having constant 24/7 humiliation and fear, the seminars, and turning their parents against them) and a level based system to ensure conformity within their little pocket universe, youve done nothing to address that or discredit that.
Regarding something here, but not facts . . .
Maybe some programs use these tactics, but I've worked at several, and never saw the boogeymen you claim are there.
Mind control: The kids arrive at programs out of control, and the idea is to teach them to create it for themselves. You teach it, demonstrate it, have them practice it, and reinforce it with rewards (In college, we called that "education." Eventually, they learn to do it just because running your own life feels good.
24/7 humiliation and fear: Oh, come on, who the hell has the time, money, or energy to put into methods that don't even work? The programs I've seen find it far easier and more productive to create a safe and compassionate environment for the kids and the staff. Frankly, it's just too much work to be bad guys on this level.
Turning their parents against them: Now that makes perfect sense, doesn't it? Alienate the parents so they feel they're really getting their money's worth.
When kids arrive, their parents are already feeling a lot of tension in the relationship, and the kids are usually outright defiant. Since that's already the case, programs hardly need to expend a lot of time working toward such a dubious goal.
It makes much more sense to include the whole family in the process of growth---Oh, wait a minute, there's those evil seminars again. So if the parents aren't included in the seminars, programs are evil for keeping families apart, and if the parents are included, then the programs are guilty of brainwashing the whole family.
:rofl:
I guess I should apologize for my sarcasm, but man, it's so hard to take this shit seriously! Have you ever even seen a program?! So no, on second thought, no apology.
AtomicAnt:
--- Quote ---On 2005-11-21 09:38:00, Anonymous wrote:
"QUOTE: Regarding the fact that its nothing more than a regime of mind control that works via milieu control, stressors to cause psychological regression (having constant 24/7 humiliation and fear, the seminars, and turning their parents against them) and a level based system to ensure conformity within their little pocket universe, youve done nothing to address that or discredit that.
Regarding something here, but not facts . . .
Maybe some programs use these tactics, but I've worked at several, and never saw the boogeymen you claim are there.
Mind control: The kids arrive at programs out of control, and the idea is to teach them to create it for themselves. You teach it, demonstrate it, have them practice it, and reinforce it with rewards (In college, we called that "education." Eventually, they learn to do it just because running your own life feels good.
24/7 humiliation and fear: Oh, come on, who the hell has the time, money, or energy to put into methods that don't even work? The programs I've seen find it far easier and more productive to create a safe and compassionate environment for the kids and the staff. Frankly, it's just too much work to be bad guys on this level.
Turning their parents against them: Now that makes perfect sense, doesn't it? Alienate the parents so they feel they're really getting their money's worth.
When kids arrive, their parents are already feeling a lot of tension in the relationship, and the kids are usually outright defiant. Since that's already the case, programs hardly need to expend a lot of time working toward such a dubious goal.
It makes much more sense to include the whole family in the process of growth---Oh, wait a minute, there's those evil seminars again. So if the parents aren't included in the seminars, programs are evil for keeping families apart, and if the parents are included, then the programs are guilty of brainwashing the whole family.
:rofl:
I guess I should apologize for my sarcasm, but man, it's so hard to take this shit seriously! Have you ever even seen a program?! So no, on second thought, no apology. "
--- End quote ---
You dodge so well, you should be a lawyer or politician. Maybe you are.
1. 24/7 humiliation is cheap when those implementing it are upper level clients and not paid staff.
2. Turning the parents against the kids does not mean alienating the parents. You make no sense to anyone capable of critical thought. They convince the parents that their children will lie to them about the way they have been treated. It works and voids the clients' only protection from abuse, since they cannot contact anyone else outside the facility.
3. Posters against programs never condemn parental involvement per se. They condemn these particular seminars as being based on harmful models that were sued out of existence in the 1980s (Lifespring, est). These seminars are designed by the very people that were sued in the 1980s. They are simply running the same scam with different victims.
Anonymous:
QUOTE: Turning the parents against the kids does not mean alienating the parents. You make no sense to anyone capable of critical thought. They convince the parents that their children will lie to them about the way they have been treated. It works and voids the clients' only protection from abuse, since they cannot contact anyone else outside the facility.
But turning the parents against the kids WOULD have the effect of alienating them. Think about this: the kids have already lost all trust. No one could make that happen if the child's behavior didn't support such a conclusion. And those kids lying to Mom and Dad at home don't change overnight and suddenly become honest. No one has to tell Mom and Dad about that, either. There's a very real possibility the kids will lie, but the parents can check it out any time they want. Here's how:
Parents can pop in any time they want. Yep, it's discouraged because frankly, it wasn't working for them to ask how high when the kids said to jump. But the fact is, parents keep all parental rights, and can see or talk to their kids on demand, with or without notice. The guardianship the programs assume includes only the right to make emergency decisions, and never supercedes the parental rights. NEVER.
So maybe they're worried and can't get there right away? They can call CPS or even local law enforcement for a welfare check.
And don't forget (if you're even aware) that in most programs, parents control the kids' mail. They make the call on who can write, and where they'll send letters the kids write.
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