Are you really out of straight yet?

[Antigen]

Anon, I'm not saying it's exactly the same. Obviously, it's not. I think Todd nails it; it's the Program® Light. And I think the Program grew naturally and almost organically out of the blowback. Kids who resist the mainstream brainwashing and who's parents are, themselves, brainwashed enough to view that as evidence of a problem in their kid are the ones who wind up getting the intensive version of it.

As to homeschooling, it really doesn't take a lot of dedicated time. If you don't send your kids to school, they never learn to hate books and learning. They just continue on their curious ways and learn everything they find interesting, useful, fun or otherwise worthwhile. I think my littlest one has gotten more reading profficiency by looking up song lyrics online than anything else. She'll get fascinated w/ one band or artist or another, play their CDs over and over, find and print the lyrics and memorize them all. Then onto the fan trivia.

Right now, the biggest obstacle to most people breaking out of the system is its momentum. Everybody's at work or school all day. So there are no babysitters except for the public schools unless you're wealthy enough to hire them. Most of us are not. And there's the pervasive but totally unfounded belief that school is the only or best way for kids to learn basic literacy, numeracy and socialization. It simply isn't.

Webcrawler, in no way am I my kids' only educator. That would be awful for them and for me. They learn all the time from everyone and everything around them, just like toddlers and adults do.

Faith, as well intentioned as it may be, must be built on facts, not fiction- faith in fiction is a damnable false hope.
--Thomas Edison, American inventor

[Antigen]

On 2005-11-05 08:43:00, Anonymous wrote:

 I just don't get how anyone who is suffering the PTSD and all that psyho shit can say public school is anything compared with Straight.

As a percentage of the total adult population, how many people would you guess have bad dreams about highschool? I think the most common one has to do w/ finding oneself naked in school.

And ask some parents how they felt the first time they walked into the office or a parent/teacher conference as the adult.

Again, nowhere near as horrible, totally controling or destructive. But it is what it is and, imo, it's Not Good®.

Every man has a property in his own person.
This nobody has any right to but himself.
The labor of his body and the work of his
 hands are properly his.


--John Locke

[starry-eyed pirate]

On 2005-11-05 08:43:00, Anonymous wrote:

"I just don't get how anyone who is suffering the PTSD and all that psyho shit can say public school is anything compared with Straight. You said yourself, the brainwashin' didn't take. You smoked weed in the woods and so on. I think there's kids who know exactly what it going on in public school, and they play the game and they know it is a game. But then when they have kids of their own, I don't know how many of them ever take their kids seriously enough to take them out of school, especially when it really isn't working out too well.



See, ultimately, you want the government to quit bugging you and your children, you gotta quit depending on it. Sorry all you single parents, this means getting together with other single parents and making communities out of separated and weakened family units. That's what I think. Quit complaining about the government having all this supposed brainwashing power, then not doing nothin' to take care of your own! See man, we lost too much over the past hundred or more years. It used to be, people in an area got together and themselves paid for a school teacher to teach their children.



This is not the easiest proposition, especially when we are talking about depressed and stressed and sub-par functioning Straight survivors.



"

Whether or not i have PTSD(or whatever) has no bearing on the relationship between the public school system and Str8.  

i'm not gonna beat a dead horse, or a livin' one either for that matter.

i can say public school compares to str8 in that each is a coercive and manipulative, authoritarian institution concerned with the establishment of certain beliefs and world-views and prejudices in the minds of the yout'.  One institution is jus' more harsh than the other.  The establishment of such beliefs, world-views and prejudices maintains the status quo and perpetuates the oppression already in place.

 You are acknowledging my point when you write that some kids see through "it".  A lot of kids do see through "it", but i think most are fooled.  And many of the perceptive who do see through "it" are then as, Ant. pointed out placed in programs like str8. The school system is not innocent simply because they are not always sucsessful.  There is a government sponsored state system of oppression in America.

Once again you make several good points.  We do have to stop depending on the government.  We do need to get our communities back together.  Yes.  That is a great idea.  And i liked what you said about makin' communities out of seperated and weakened family units.  i dig it.  And i would add to that.  We need to stop selling ever'tin', slow down and start seein' what is goin' on in this world.

[starry-eyed pirate]

i thought i might try to clarify somethin'.  i'm not sayin' that public school in general is as pschologically traumatizing as str8.  Str8 is way more traumatizing and damaging in so many ways.  What i am sayin' is that these 2 apparently seperate institutions are actually in cahoots with each other and are part of the same authoritarian social control system.  They share and espouse all the same core values.  The way i see it it's kinda like str8 is an extention of the school system.  Like maximum security detention or somethin'

[Antigen]

On 2005-11-05 11:31:00, starry-eyed pirate wrote:

The way i see it it's kinda like str8 is an extention of the school system. Like maximum security detention or somethin'

That's pretty much what I'm seein' too.

May the forces of evil become confused on the way to your house.
-- George Carlin

[starry-eyed pirate]

::bandit::  ...so...uhh... ::dove::  :smile:

[Anonymous]

I just want to be careful about comparing the two, because, as people have discussed, we found freedom of mind anyway. This is a paramount difference. Also because of the psychological fallout we see in ourselves and others.

But I will concede that there are psychological casualties from the school system as well, plenty smart people who didn't get what they needed at all and then were told it was them who was deficient.

Also pirate you misread what I said about the sub-par functioning Straight survivors. I was referring to the impact on the energy parents have for their children. That's for real.

[starry-eyed pirate]

i'm not sure i follow ya.  Do you mean that people found "freedom of mind" in str8 ??  i did have some freedom of mind, but not much.  Maybe jus' enough to keep my disease from turnin' any worse.  i'm not at all sure what you mean though.

"A paramount difference"  ??  Do you mean that the "freedom of mind" is much greater in the public school system ?? and that is a paramount difference from str8 ??  Please clarify your meaning.

i didn'think i even addressed your other comment about the sub-par functioning str8 survivors.

Do i know you ??

[Anonymous]

Sorry I worded that very carelessly. We found freedom of mind while in the public school system. Straight gave us the psychological fallout. These two things are both paramount differences.

You did address the sub-par thing in a recent post:

"Whether or not i have PTSD(or whatever) has no bearing on the relationship between the public school system and Str8."

I was not referring to the schools and Straight. I was saying depressed, stressed, and sub-par functioning Straight survivors have a hard time doing a lot of things, including putting a lot of energy into being the kind of parent they really want to be. It takes energy to do those projects of getting self-sufficient and off the grid.

[Antigen]

On 2005-11-05 13:38:00, starry-eyed pirate wrote:

i'm not sure i follow ya. Do you mean that people found "freedom of mind" in str8 ??

I didn't take it that way, except in a 'bloom where you are planted' sort of way. I'd say I got some clarification from the experience. When I initially ran away to avoid the Seed, I have to admit that I wasn't entirely certain I was right.

Maybe they were just talking, not actually intending to put me away. Maybe the Program was really right and I was wrong. How would I know for sure whether the manic gleem in the eyes of my Seedling sibs was for real or not?

But after having been there a little while and having found absolutely nothing unexpected, no treasures, no merit in the Progra, I certainly had more clarity of thought and more firm moral ground to stand on on the issue.

And it has served me well. I didn't get what I wanted, but beggars can't be choosers. I did get a profoundly sharp and hard understanding of human behavior and motivation out of it.

Religion is a byproduct of fear. For much of human history, it may have been a necessary evil, but why was it more evil than necessary? Isn't killing people in the name of God a pretty good definition of insanity?
--Arthur C. Clarke, author

_________________
Drug war POW
Straight, Sarasota
`80 - `82

[Anonymous]

Again, please, I didn't say we found freedom of mind in Straight, I said we found it in public school in spite of it being coercive and all that. I was talking about me, pirate, some other people here, and all the people I know who see throught it.

Was Straight not traumatizing to you?

[starry-eyed pirate]

Uh...let's see here...where you think i am addressing the sub-par thing i am actually addressing your comment from a few posts back to the effect that you don' get how anyone suffering with the Ptsd psycho shit can say the public school system even compares with str8.  Also i got your meaning in reference to the sub-par thing.  i see your point and know from experience how difficult independence is.  

Communication is tricky.  You're alright.

[starry-eyed pirate]

On 2005-11-05 14:09:00, Anonymous wrote:

"Again, please, I didn't say we found freedom of mind in Straight, I said we found it in public school in spite of it being coercive and all that. I was talking about me, pirate, some other people here, and all the people I know who see throught it."

 

i gotcha.

Was Straight not traumatizing to you?"

i'm fucked up to this very day.

[Antigen]

On 2005-11-05 14:09:00, Anonymous wrote:

Again, please, I didn't say we found freedom of mind in Straight, I said we found it in public school in spite of it being coercive and all that.

But wasn't it just shades of the same theme? I mean, I can remember some teachers who taught me very good things by example; usually while bending or breaking the rules. But just about all that I learned from schooling was about how to subvert the control.

The only voluntary urine sample they'll get from me is a taste test
--Bumper Sticker

[Antigen]

On 2005-11-05 14:22:00, starry-eyed pirate wrote:

"

On 2005-11-05 14:09:00, Anonymous wrote:



Was Straight not traumatizing to you?"

i'm fucked up to this very day.



"

Not half as fucked up as those who think they're sane.

Don't sweat the

Petty Things

Don't pet the

Sweaty Things

Water what you want to grow.
--Curiosity