Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform > Brat Camp

Brat Camp Producers Out of Touch With Reality

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Anonymous:
I was wondering if it makes you feel BIG and IMPORTANT to use foul language and insults. You sure named yourself correctly.

Nonconformistlaw:
Anonymous said---
"Most TBSs are not based on isolation and punishment. You continue to post erroneous information and I continue to correct you."----

What FACTS do you have to support this statement?

Do you have first hand experience in these matters?

Or are you just using your personal opinions as a basis to "correct" someone else?

Anonymous also said ----"I wouldn't call SageWalk isolation and punishment either. Deborah, take off those filtering glasses through which you view everything and look at the reality."----

Are you basing this OPINION on television's portrayal of Brat Camp? If so, I cant help wonder if you are one of those people who's perception of reality is shaped entirely by television shows. Sad.

Differences of opinion are one thing, but having the nerve to "correct" someone just because you disagree is infuriating.

I suppose it makes YOU feel big and important to try to pass off your opinions as reality.

Anonymous:
I have personal experience.  When you are in a school with a 100 or so other teens, going to classes, going to group therapy, playing sports, journaling......this is not isolation and punishment. There are consequences for not following rules- just as there are supposed to be in the outside world.  TBSs are based on getting to the source of the individual's pain and anger, not on isolation and punishment.

Nihilanthic:
Isolation from the world thats NOT THE PROGRAM, anon.

Furthermore, the biggest problem (that I have at least, probably more) is the damn use of those LGA type seminars/workshops. Its culty as hell, not effective, and makes them spew out bullshit non-stop with the seminar-speak and be all about 'feelings', not thought. And its damaging to a lot of people.

Now, as far as punishment goes, you can punish someone within the framework of all that shit. AFAIK even Tranquility Bay lets them play soccer once in a while, but the 'group therapy' is basically torture.

Plus plenty of programs dont do that at all. The only way we know is what some anonymous twit tells us becuase therye so damned secretive and ISOLATED!
Come the millennium,

month 12,

in the home of greatest power,

the village idiot will come forth to
be acclaimed the leader.
--Nostradamus
--- End quote ---

Nonconformistlaw:
Was your personal experience as one of those students, staff, parent, or a mere program advocate who only views programs by how they appear on paper, what? Please specify...I'm curious. In all fairness...my experience is that of a kid (now adult) that went through a highly abusive program many years ago.

Of course there are consequences in the real world for not following the rules, as there should be. And yes, kids should learn why certain rules are important. For example, stealing is a crime and you will go to jail for it, so in a program for instance, if a kid steals something, there should be appropriate consequences, just w/o punishment using isolation, abuse etc. So yes, its perfectly acceptable to teach kids the importance of following REASONABLE rules as long as those lessons are taught WITHOUT isolation, WITHOUT abusive punishment, WITHOUT extreme coercion & mind control...etc.

If your experience is based on one the few decent programs out there, then please explain that too. If that is your experience, quite frankly I would be skeptical, but all ears if it REALLY was decent.

BTW, most of the views around here ARE based on first hand experience. And, those experiences were far from the sunny idealistic picture you just painted.

True, not all programs are the same, but way too many of them employ very questionable tactics at best, while others blatently abuse kids, or completely break them down and terrorize kids to get them to follow their so-called ridiculous rules, which is UNACCEPTABLE.

No one is saying that kids should be disobedient little hellions who dont have to obey rules...but when isolation is used and when other punishments go far beyond reasonableness, to the point kids are scared to death, those methods are inappropriate, counter-productive, and destroys the children subected to it.

Treating kids like animals or criminals IS NOT therapy.

In my opinion, therapy should be communication, listening, feedback, suggestions, and dealing with a kid's anger and pain with compassion and understanding(nonexistant in my program experience). Consequences, if needed, should be humane and proportionate to real misdeeds, not imaginary misdeeds created by excessive and pointless rules.

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