Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform > The Seed Discussion Forum
Some insight(s)
GregFL:
Funny you would say that. I spent about 10 years thinking confronting people that were "full of shit" was a good thing and often got in people's faces over little to nothing.
Also, For many years I was inapropriately "open and honest" with people who hadn't earned the right to know intimate knowledge about me. Very often this backfired in awefully painfull ways.
I thought these behaviors were actually a socially acceptable and productive way to behave in the real world.
They are not. I had a very hard time attracting and keeping friends and partners until I figured this out.
Another chapter of...
"seed gifts I could have lived without".
marshall:
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Quoted by John Underwood:
" The inability (or unwillingness) to separate personalities and methodology from what The Seed offered was never a problem for me, I was lucky I guess."
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The stated ideals of the Seed were certainly laudable. Nearly every major world religion embraces them to an extent. In reality, means / methodology cannot be separated from ends / ideals. The spanish conquistadors wanted to make sure that the american indian babies they found didn't go to hell. A very good intention and laudable ideal. They went about assuring this end by first baptizing the infants into the christian faith and then promptly bashing their heads against a rock. Thus assuring they would have no chance to fall into sin. The same high ideals were present as the inquisition used torture to save the souls of heretics. The ideal of marxist communism was a classless society where no one would starve or want. To achieve this ideal, millions were imprisoned and butchered.
Last week CNN had a segment on a church that has started a group similar in many ways to the seed. The purpose of this group is to convert gay teens into straight teens. Parents are forcing their children into this group. It uses peer-pressure and marathon meetings to make the kids straight. They interviewed some of the kids who spoke highly of the program and claimed they only chose to be gay because of the attention it gained them. Now, they were straight and happy. They also spoke of keeping a "moral inventory".The same methodology used by the seed can be applied to most anything, good or bad. You could coerce and pressure kids into accepting any belief system.
When we make any ideal into an absolute and conclude the means justify the ends, the most horrific consequences usually follow. Art and the seed staff, including yourself, made the ideal of getting kids off drugs and changing attitudes into an absolute. Any technique seemed justified to achieve the desired goal. It is precisely the methodology used by the seed and other peer-pressure behaviour modification programs that I find repugnant...not the stated ideals of honesty, faith, etc. By whatever pretty name we choose to call it, it is coercive thought control.
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Quote: "We thought it was conceived and based in conceit, ...we thought it was dangerous!"
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Funny how you can easily see this in other, nearly identical programs. The Seed too was conceived in this basic conceit that Art and his partners knew what was best for kids. What made Straight dangerous is the same thing that made the Seed dangerous. The use of powerful thought-control techniques on adolescents to achieve a desired personality modification.
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Quote: "Those who use this site solely to spout venom for its own sake, and thrive on the venom of others, probably should stop here.">
Anonymous:
Do you suppose we will hear back from John Underwood? I'd be surprised, but it would be good if he "manned-up" and replied.
It won't make a difference in my life, but it would be interesting to see if he responds to challeges as well as the thank yous and boot kissing.
I'm glad that we were able to have some closure with the man, such as it was. One down, several to go.
GregFL:
Marshall....
I would gladly sign my name to your post. It was well thought out, non abrasive, on topic, on point, and clearly stated facts about the experience that get lost in all the Testimonial type post.
Great job.
:tup:
Antigen:
Ditto. Marshall's the real grown up around here.
If you want to get together in any exclusive situation and have people love you, fine- but to hang all this desperate sociology on the idea of The Cloud-Guy who has The Big Book, who knows if you've been bad or good- and CARES about any of it- to hang it all on that, folks, is the chimpanzee part of the brain working.
--Frank Zappa, American musician
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