Author Topic: Carlbrook  (Read 736193 times)

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Offline Anonymous

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Carlbrook
« Reply #1920 on: December 31, 2006, 01:45:38 AM »
Quote
But i'm not going to sit here any longer and let you try to fuck up a good thing: somebody willing to listen!!!


There's plenty of them.
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Offline exhausted

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Carlbrook
« Reply #1921 on: December 31, 2006, 12:01:40 PM »
Quote from: ""hanzomon4""
Quote from: ""exhausted""
Quote from: ""Charly""
exhausted-  Yes, I think he took responsibility for his actions.  I saw evidence of that change when he came home.  Before everything was always someone else's fault or he was "unlucky" or got screwed.  A lot of therapy and reflection happened before he was ready to write the letter.
hmmmm...that's very interesting, as I have one who blames everyone and everything on anyone but himself and his own actions ... no matter what is said, he just cannot see that what happens to him is a direct consequence of his actions, he actually believes what he's saying as well!  :o

Are you thinking about sending your kid to a program?  :(  ::boohoo::
LOL no! It's tempting but no - he asked me to send him to one the other night though, (wilderness) I explained what could happen to him out there, it just made him want to go more, because "Those pussys wouldn't be able to break me down" dontchya know?  :-?
The worse I make it sound - the more he hounds me to send him, he's going out there to teach them a real lesson right!
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Offline hanzomon4

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Carlbrook
« Reply #1922 on: December 31, 2006, 12:21:57 PM »
OMG That sounds like me!!  ::bwahaha::
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i]Do something real, however, small. And don\'t-- don\'t diss the political things, but understand their limitations - Grace Lee Boggs[/i]
I do see the present and the future of our children as very dark. But I trust the people\'s capacity for reflection, rage, and rebellion - Oscar Olivera

Howto]

Offline Karass

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Carlbrook
« Reply #1923 on: December 31, 2006, 02:28:28 PM »
Quote from: ""exhausted""
Quote from: ""hanzomon4""
Are you thinking about sending your kid to a program?  :(  ::boohoo::
LOL no! It's tempting but no - he asked me to send him to one the other night though, (wilderness) I explained what could happen to him out there, it just made him want to go more, because "Those pussys wouldn't be able to break me down" dontchya know?  :-?
The worse I make it sound - the more he hounds me to send him, he's going out there to teach them a real lesson right!


Interesting reaction by your son. Mine heard a lot about other WC's while he was at his -- from the staff, many of whom had worked in other WC's or from fellow participants that had been sent to other WC's before. He had a reaction like "those are pussy programs." Kind of a macho "Rambo" thing. His last solo he didn't even have his knife, which he later discovered was stolen by another member of his group who had lost hers. He found a broken shard of glass and used that in place of a knife to prep his fire kit. He was damn proud of being able to say "hey look, I don't even need a fucking knife to survive."

Therapeutic? Doubtful. Self-esteem boost? I'd say so. Doesn't make it right, but it doesn't make it harmful either.
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Like its politicians and its wars, society has the teenagers it deserves. -- J.B. Priestley

Offline Charly

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Carlbrook
« Reply #1924 on: December 31, 2006, 03:06:26 PM »
When we transitioned our son out of wilderness the first time, he was really upset by the noise and commercialism of the outside world.  He thought he wanted a McDonald's cheeseburger, but he had trouble eating it.  Everything seemed crowded and noisy to him.  He didn't shower at the base building like most of the kids did. Part of him wanted to keep the wilderness experience with him- filth and all.  We loaded him and his ton of gear into the car and started the drive to Denver.  We then flew him to NC to deliver him to Carlbrook.  We had to get hims ome clothes on the way.  He said it was hard to sleep in the bed in the hotel!  (he adjusted back to creature comforts pretty quickly, to the extent he had them at Carlbrook).
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Offline Anonymous

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Carlbrook
« Reply #1925 on: December 31, 2006, 03:59:31 PM »
Quote from: ""Charly""
When we transitioned our son out of wilderness the first time, he was really upset by the noise and commercialism of the outside world.  He thought he wanted a McDonald's cheeseburger, but he had trouble eating it.  Everything seemed crowded and noisy to him.  He didn't shower at the base building like most of the kids did. Part of him wanted to keep the wilderness experience with him- filth and all.  We loaded him and his ton of gear into the car and started the drive to Denver.  We then flew him to NC to deliver him to Carlbrook.  We had to get hims ome clothes on the way.  He said it was hard to sleep in the bed in the hotel!  (he adjusted back to creature comforts pretty quickly, to the extent he had them at Carlbrook).


That's what a communist re-education camp is designed to do. Did he start chanting workers unite as well?
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Offline exhausted

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Carlbrook
« Reply #1926 on: December 31, 2006, 04:10:27 PM »
I felt the same when I visited America, I am a country girl bought up on farmland, I was terrified!!

As for the Rambo thing, my son would break within 2 hours of being there, be on the phone begging to come home - he'd never admit that, hed rather die than admit it, and he'd still come away saying it was a breeze & he could do it all again  :roll:
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Offline Anonymous

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Carlbrook
« Reply #1927 on: December 31, 2006, 04:18:38 PM »
Quote
hed rather die than admit it


Sadly, many have.
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Offline Anonymous

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Carlbrook
« Reply #1928 on: December 31, 2006, 04:53:25 PM »
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The CIA, in its "Human Resource Exploitation Training Manual ? 1983" (reprinted in the April 1997 issue of Harper's Magazine), summed up the theory of coercion thus:

"The purpose of all coercive techniques is to induce psychological regression in the subject by bringing a superior outside force to bear on his will to resist. Regression is basically a loss of autonomy, a reversion to an earlier behavioral level. As the subject regresses, his learned personality traits fall away in reverse chronological order. He begins to lose the capacity to carry out the highest creative activities, to deal with complex situations, or to cope with stressful interpersonal relationships or repeated frustrations."


http://samvak.tripod.com/torturepsychology.html

Sound familiar anyone?
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Offline Karass

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Carlbrook
« Reply #1929 on: December 31, 2006, 04:55:35 PM »
Quote from: ""Guest""
Quote
The CIA, in its "Human Resource Exploitation Training Manual ? 1983" (reprinted in the April 1997 issue of Harper's Magazine), summed up the theory of coercion thus:

"The purpose of all coercive techniques is to induce psychological regression in the subject by bringing a superior outside force to bear on his will to resist. Regression is basically a loss of autonomy, a reversion to an earlier behavioral level. As the subject regresses, his learned personality traits fall away in reverse chronological order. He begins to lose the capacity to carry out the highest creative activities, to deal with complex situations, or to cope with stressful interpersonal relationships or repeated frustrations."

http://samvak.tripod.com/torturepsychology.html

Sound familiar anyone?


In the case of wilderness, the "superior outside force" is as much or more "mother nature" as it is the other humans present.
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Like its politicians and its wars, society has the teenagers it deserves. -- J.B. Priestley

Offline Karass

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Carlbrook
« Reply #1930 on: December 31, 2006, 04:56:51 PM »
Quote from: ""Charly""
When we transitioned our son out of wilderness the first time, he was really upset by the noise and commercialism of the outside world.  He thought he wanted a McDonald's cheeseburger, but he had trouble eating it.  Everything seemed crowded and noisy to him.  He didn't shower at the base building like most of the kids did. Part of him wanted to keep the wilderness experience with him- filth and all.  We loaded him and his ton of gear into the car and started the drive to Denver.  We then flew him to NC to deliver him to Carlbrook.  We had to get hims ome clothes on the way.  He said it was hard to sleep in the bed in the hotel!  (he adjusted back to creature comforts pretty quickly, to the extent he had them at Carlbrook).


Mine was similarly a little freaked out by the lights & noise, as well as by a rather violent movie he watched with a friend within a few days of getting home. He also couldn't wait to go camping again and sleep under the stars, which we did within 2 weeks.
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Like its politicians and its wars, society has the teenagers it deserves. -- J.B. Priestley

Offline Karass

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Carlbrook
« Reply #1931 on: December 31, 2006, 05:00:58 PM »
One of the things he missed the most though was cigarettes, and he managed to get some before we even left Utah. Wilderness apparently doesn't do much for tobacco addiction. Then again, I haven't found much that does -- still struggling with my own habit after all these years.
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Like its politicians and its wars, society has the teenagers it deserves. -- J.B. Priestley

Offline Anonymous

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Carlbrook
« Reply #1932 on: December 31, 2006, 05:02:43 PM »
Quote from: ""70sPunkRebel""
Quote from: ""Guest""
Quote
The CIA, in its "Human Resource Exploitation Training Manual ? 1983" (reprinted in the April 1997 issue of Harper's Magazine), summed up the theory of coercion thus:

"The purpose of all coercive techniques is to induce psychological regression in the subject by bringing a superior outside force to bear on his will to resist. Regression is basically a loss of autonomy, a reversion to an earlier behavioral level. As the subject regresses, his learned personality traits fall away in reverse chronological order. He begins to lose the capacity to carry out the highest creative activities, to deal with complex situations, or to cope with stressful interpersonal relationships or repeated frustrations."

http://samvak.tripod.com/torturepsychology.html

Sound familiar anyone?

In the case of wilderness, the "superior outside force" is as much or more "mother nature" as it is the other humans present.


Is it the "nature" or is it the lack of the society?
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Offline Anonymous

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Carlbrook
« Reply #1933 on: December 31, 2006, 05:14:47 PM »
"Mother nature" is not the coercive force that drives these teens to do the things they are required to do. These kids are purposely placed in a foreign social environment, a very carefully controlled social environment (facade), for a reason. So they can be coerced, in a way that cannot be done at home.

The coercion does not come from the challenge to light a fire. The kids aren't retarded, they know that the counselor can get in a truck and drive to Big 5 and buy a propane stove for everyone if that is what was desired. They are placed in a social environment to give the effect that it's mother nature doing the coercion, and this is what parents obviously want to believe to.

The coercion doesn't come from trees and bushes, it comes from psychological pressure manifistated through psyche invading structure of the program itself.

The first level of coercion comes from peer pressure. They force you to reveal things about yourself in front of the group (or in karens case read a letter from your parents) which gives the false sense of comraderie (again, it's forced, a facade). This is done to create a sense of peer pressure so that they can use that to force the kids to march, do stupid psychological games with the young staff, and not just sit down and not get up.

Tell me, what would happen to a kid if they just sat down, and played the "jello game" so familiar to those of us who watch small children? Well that brings us to the second level of coercion, which is no longer psychological. They will use every psychological manipulation available to them, usually they reach for humiliation tactics first and last, maybe at first they might even try some motivation. But in the end psychological manipulation can only go so far.

So what if a kid just sits down and refuses to go?

It's not mother nature who's going to be doing the coercion in that case. I don't pretend to know the answer to this question. But I wouldn't want to be a staff member if that were the case, and knowing how head strong and defiant teenagers are I would never want to be in this situation, isolaed, in the middle of nowhere.

I know parents love this torture-light bullshit, but the theory behind it is intrusive and dangerous. It seemed to work out in Karen's kids case and Punk's case. Great. I can apply this same technique and convince a group of people of anything you want me to. If I use this same technique and start some fat camps and use it to force kids to lose weight is that crossing the line?

How far can this psychological theory and technique be used to further commercial means? It would seem endless.
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Offline Anonymous

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Carlbrook
« Reply #1934 on: December 31, 2006, 06:02:16 PM »
Am I the only person compelled to vomit after readint SNWP website?

Talk about playing to parents naive romantic notions, I've never seen such an overuse of cheesy heart string pluckin' metaphors before.
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