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Author Topic: Carlbrook  (Read 765459 times)

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Offline Nihilanthic

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Carlbrook
« Reply #1905 on: December 30, 2006, 09:30:02 PM »
BTW, to the WC apologetics:

Why do you think that its ok to make someone eat uncooked rice because they cant or didn't make a campfire? You can say a kid doesnt deserve edible food?

Or the fact that "oh well MY PARTICULAR kid was into health food so it wasn't all that bad..." somehow seems to excuse what is very much going to be stressful if not traumatic to people who are not into health food and running around in the woods.

YOU would most definitely HATE being forced to live without food, water, rest, TV, internet, and hygeine, don't pretend it won't do that to a kid.

Does anyone here have any damned empathy? Sheesh.
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DannyB on the internet:I CALLED A LAWYER TODAY TO SEE IF I COULD SUE YOUR ASSES FOR DOING THIS BUT THAT WAS NOT POSSIBLE.

CCMGirl on program restraints: "DON\'T TAZ ME BRO!!!!!"

TheWho on program survivors: "From where I sit I see all the anit-program[sic] people doing all the complaining and crying."

Offline exhausted

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Carlbrook
« Reply #1906 on: December 30, 2006, 09:30:50 PM »
Charly,

Do you think your son wrote the apologies and actually took responsibility for his actions, or just found it easier to comply in the hope al would be forgiven?

i ask because my sons have become really good at spiling out the 'sorry' word without actualy meaning it, in the hope it'll get them off the hook with me
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Offline Karass

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Carlbrook
« Reply #1907 on: December 30, 2006, 09:42:40 PM »
Quote from: ""Nihilanthic""
BTW, to the WC apologetics:

Why do you think that its ok to make someone eat uncooked rice because they cant or didn't make a campfire? You can say a kid doesnt deserve edible food?

Or the fact that "oh well MY PARTICULAR kid was into health food so it wasn't all that bad..." somehow seems to excuse what is very much going to be stressful if not traumatic to people who are not into health food and running around in the woods.

YOU would most definitely HATE being forced to live without food, water, rest, TV, internet, and hygeine, don't pretend it won't do that to a kid.

Does anyone here have any damned empathy? Sheesh.


You're right Niles, nobody deserves to eat uncooked rice just because they can't make a fire, or even because they're unwilling to help in some way (gather wood, etc.). The health food comment was just to say that he didn't think the dietary transition was that bad, even though some other kids did. The whole thing is probably very traumatic to "people who are not into health food and running around in the woods."

I'm not really a WC apologist, even though it might seem that way. But I am really into the "wilderness" in the actual sense of that word. In spite of my obvious fuckup as a parent, I'm really grateful that my son is still into it too. We abused ourselves yesterday climbing a mountain for several hours in the snow. It was "abusive, but in a good way." And he didn't have to come along if he didn't want to, but he did -- which is very different from the coerced wilderness experience he had last summer.
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Like its politicians and its wars, society has the teenagers it deserves. -- J.B. Priestley

Offline Anonymous

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Carlbrook
« Reply #1908 on: December 30, 2006, 10:14:49 PM »
Well, there is another level to this parenting madness, and that's the parents who bought into forcing their kids to participate in a reality tv show called Brat Camp.  IMO, those parents really should have taken the long view and realized allowing their child (and themselves) to be exploited was a stupid, indefensible thing to do.

Sorry, but these kids really were put in a no-win situation.  WT is bad enough but this was a set up made to cast WT in a positive light (read boost advertising dollars for the network and future sales for the OBH industry at large).  
 
What did the kids get out of it?  A healing?  A pardon by their parents for being an (gasp) imperfect child?  What does it matter?  That's not why the show was created.  The show was created to make money.  This was a reality WT.  Lights, Camera, Action (Ok Kids, start hiking!).

 :flame:
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Offline Anonymous

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Carlbrook
« Reply #1909 on: December 30, 2006, 10:18:49 PM »
I wonder how the ratings would do if one ot the kids took a knife and cut his own throat out, in front of his parents, the programmies, and the cameras?
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Offline Charly

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Carlbrook
« Reply #1910 on: December 30, 2006, 10:35:55 PM »
exhausted-  Yes, I think he took responsibility for his actions.  I saw evidence of that change when he came home.  Before everything was always someone else's fault or he was "unlucky" or got screwed.  A lot of therapy and reflection happened before he was ready to write the letter.
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Offline Anonymous

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Carlbrook
« Reply #1911 on: December 30, 2006, 10:38:38 PM »
Quote from: ""Milk Gargling Death Penalty""
Since my point was that this is pointless, I'm leaving the thread. :wave:


Hmmm.  I thought you were gone.
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Offline exhausted

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Carlbrook
« Reply #1912 on: December 30, 2006, 10:42:24 PM »
Quote from: ""Charly""
exhausted-  Yes, I think he took responsibility for his actions.  I saw evidence of that change when he came home.  Before everything was always someone else's fault or he was "unlucky" or got screwed.  A lot of therapy and reflection happened before he was ready to write the letter.
hmmmm...that's very interesting, as I have one who blames everyone and everything on anyone but himself and his own actions ... no matter what is said, he just cannot see that what happens to him is a direct consequence of his actions, he actually believes what he's saying as well!  :o
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Offline Charly

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Carlbrook
« Reply #1913 on: December 30, 2006, 10:49:15 PM »
One thing about hiking through the Utah desert and mountains and sleeping on the ground, you have a lot of time to figure out what it was that got you there.  My son was shocked that we would do something that extreme to him. It really opened his eyes about just how bad things had gotten.  This led to a lot of journaling, a lot of thinking, a lot of finally listening to a therapist he really respected.  This smart kid finally got it that it actually wasn't all someone else's fault.  It did take some time, though.   The first letter we got began, "I am ridden with disgust at what you have done to me."
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Offline hanzomon4

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Carlbrook
« Reply #1914 on: December 30, 2006, 10:58:51 PM »
Quote from: ""exhausted""
Quote from: ""Charly""
exhausted-  Yes, I think he took responsibility for his actions.  I saw evidence of that change when he came home.  Before everything was always someone else's fault or he was "unlucky" or got screwed.  A lot of therapy and reflection happened before he was ready to write the letter.
hmmmm...that's very interesting, as I have one who blames everyone and everything on anyone but himself and his own actions ... no matter what is said, he just cannot see that what happens to him is a direct consequence of his actions, he actually believes what he's saying as well!  :o


Are you thinking about sending your kid to a program?  :(  ::boohoo::
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i]Do something real, however, small. And don\'t-- don\'t diss the political things, but understand their limitations - Grace Lee Boggs[/i]
I do see the present and the future of our children as very dark. But I trust the people\'s capacity for reflection, rage, and rebellion - Oscar Olivera

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Offline hanzomon4

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Carlbrook
« Reply #1915 on: December 30, 2006, 11:40:17 PM »
Nice breakdown..... commentaries?
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i]Do something real, however, small. And don\'t-- don\'t diss the political things, but understand their limitations - Grace Lee Boggs[/i]
I do see the present and the future of our children as very dark. But I trust the people\'s capacity for reflection, rage, and rebellion - Oscar Olivera

Howto]

Offline Anonymous

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Carlbrook
« Reply #1916 on: December 30, 2006, 11:55:22 PM »
The ends justifies the means... accountability... accomplishments.... proud parents... blah.
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Offline Nihilanthic

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Carlbrook
« Reply #1917 on: December 31, 2006, 12:46:05 AM »
Quote
I'm not really a WC apologist, even though it might seem that way. But I am really into the "wilderness" in the actual sense of that word. In spite of my obvious fuckup as a parent, I'm really grateful that my son is still into it too. We abused ourselves yesterday climbing a mountain for several hours in the snow. It was "abusive, but in a good way." And he didn't have to come along if he didn't want to, but he did -- which is very different from the coerced wilderness experience he had last summer.


It takes a big man to admit they fuck up, when they don't have to, especially becuase people find that thier parenting is sacred and above criticism.

I myself would like to willingly go out for a set duration, fully equipped, and go kill things in the woods, eat game, shoot guns and bows and be a jackass in a big orange hat. Hell, hiking and sight-seeing would be fun, complete with steve irwin impressions!

I would NOT want to go out with no control, no idea how long I will be there, with shitty provisions, strenuous hiking, yelling "EXCEPTION!", reading impact letters, eating really really craptacular food and trying to do therapy in some dirt. They have offices for a reason.

But again we get into the cherry on a turd principle. You might like the wilderness, your kid might like the wilderness and 'health food' (which white rice ain't... glycemic load index of a chocolate fucking cake, puhleeze :roll: ) but considering its very APPARENTLY going to be something that will stress and wear down someone used to far different conditions, and considering MOST kids are definitely going to be a fish out of water in such a situation, what it is there for is very APPARENT.

Note how I say APPARENT instead of another word... ;)

Also, PHYSICAL EXERTION AND/OR CONDITIONING IS NOT ABUSE! Do not say you 'abused yourself in a good way', there is no such thing at all. This comes accross (though it could just be semantic in your case) as 'loaded language' and a bit of a catch-22 trying to justify abusive practices. Or, another ploy to say means are justified by ends.

At any rate, the "good abuse" I got doing Jiujitsu or Kick boxing kind of makes going up that mountain look pretty pussyrific. And dont even get me started at how homoerotic the "good abuse" of Jiu Jitsu can look...  :rofl:
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DannyB on the internet:I CALLED A LAWYER TODAY TO SEE IF I COULD SUE YOUR ASSES FOR DOING THIS BUT THAT WAS NOT POSSIBLE.

CCMGirl on program restraints: "DON\'T TAZ ME BRO!!!!!"

TheWho on program survivors: "From where I sit I see all the anit-program[sic] people doing all the complaining and crying."

Offline Nihilanthic

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Carlbrook
« Reply #1918 on: December 31, 2006, 01:02:08 AM »
Quote from: ""hanzomon4""
Nice breakdown..... commentaries?


This is EXACTLY why S.T. won't let anyone talk openly about a program. The total lack of proof and the ease with which they're debunked or "ripped to shreds" as I was told I do to programs in my DAMN ANSWERS thread of lore by a WWASP-ey would really break down thier cognitive dissonance.

Criticism is a bad word to people who have no substance to what they say, be it program parents, politicians, or business leaders. In this case, all three..

But at any rate, after passing some critical review and just doing it all out in the open instead of a piecewise conversation, I kind of wonder what we're going to get except a ton of "I believe" or "MY son" or "I had no other choice at the time" or "give me another option"'s from Karen. LE SIGH.

Also, Ill just say it again. THERE IS NO EASY ANSWER!
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DannyB on the internet:I CALLED A LAWYER TODAY TO SEE IF I COULD SUE YOUR ASSES FOR DOING THIS BUT THAT WAS NOT POSSIBLE.

CCMGirl on program restraints: "DON\'T TAZ ME BRO!!!!!"

TheWho on program survivors: "From where I sit I see all the anit-program[sic] people doing all the complaining and crying."

Offline Anonymous

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Carlbrook
« Reply #1919 on: December 31, 2006, 01:39:48 AM »
This reminds a lot of Overlord's antics. What ever happened to that bible-thumping jesus freak?
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