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Offline Nihilanthic

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Carlbrook
« Reply #1830 on: December 29, 2006, 11:36:07 PM »
I've gone over 130, so what. :roll:

Its still forced disclosure! Its still a mindfuck to have to express your thoughts out loud to everyone! No, they can't make him, but what if he didn't say that enough, then what would happen? Held back for not working the program, some kind of punishment, a confrontation?

In the context of how a wilderness program is, I see this as something potentially damaging and not particular therapeutic or relevant to living in the real world.
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Offline psy

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Carlbrook
« Reply #1831 on: December 29, 2006, 11:44:33 PM »
Quote from: ""Nihilanthic""
I've gone over 130, so what. :roll:

Its still forced disclosure! Its still a mindfuck to have to express your thoughts out loud to everyone! No, they can't make him, but what if he didn't say that enough, then what would happen? Held back for not working the program, some kind of punishment, a confrontation?
Forced disclosure :rofl:  go read a propheets thread.  howabout a rap.  Please.

Quote
In the context of how a wilderness program is, I see this as something potentially damaging and not particular therapeutic or relevant to living in the real world.

I doubt.. i really really doubt.. that kid was harmed by that little exercise.
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"Our services are free; we do not make a profit. Parents of troubled teens ourselves, PURE strives to create a safe haven of truth and reality." - Sue Scheff - August 13th, 2007 (fukkin surreal)

Offline Nihilanthic

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Carlbrook
« Reply #1832 on: December 29, 2006, 11:46:39 PM »
My point was never if HE SPECIFICALLY was hurt by it, Psy. Not at all.

My point is if forced self-disclosure is ethical, actually therapeutic, merely a way to instigate self-examination, or if it can be potentially abusive and harmful for people.

Whats really funny?


" 4. Need to report thoughts, feelings and activities to superiors".

http://www.ex-cult.org/bite.html <- Ho hum.
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DannyB on the internet:I CALLED A LAWYER TODAY TO SEE IF I COULD SUE YOUR ASSES FOR DOING THIS BUT THAT WAS NOT POSSIBLE.

CCMGirl on program restraints: "DON\'T TAZ ME BRO!!!!!"

TheWho on program survivors: "From where I sit I see all the anit-program[sic] people doing all the complaining and crying."

Offline psy

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Carlbrook
« Reply #1833 on: December 29, 2006, 11:49:16 PM »
Quote from: ""Nihilanthic""
My point was never if HE SPECIFICALLY was hurt by it, Psy. Not at all.

My point is if forced self-disclosure is ethical, actually therapeutic, merely a way to instigate self-examination, or if it can be potentially abusive and harmful for people.

Whats really funny?


" 4. Need to report thoughts, feelings and activities to superiors".

http://www.ex-cult.org/bite.html <- Ho hum.


Yeah it's a bit creepy i aggree, but it in itself does not sound abusive.  If that's the only thing you can find against the program your case is pretty week.

Look.  I'm on the fence about this wilderness program.  Unless we talk to kids who were actually there, we're never going to know ok?
To be clear, i don't like any programs, wilderness or not.  Sure there might be some good programs, but you never know for sure so like Maia Slavitz said, it's still russian roulette and not worth the risk.
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Benchmark Young Adult School - bad place [archive.org link]
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"Our services are free; we do not make a profit. Parents of troubled teens ourselves, PURE strives to create a safe haven of truth and reality." - Sue Scheff - August 13th, 2007 (fukkin surreal)

Offline Nihilanthic

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Carlbrook
« Reply #1834 on: December 29, 2006, 11:51:46 PM »
Its not. The impact letters, lack of un-monitored communication, nutrition, hygene, isolation, coersion, and other ethnical issues are already present and have already been addressed. Same for saying they fix ADD, ADHD... blah blah blah... and other things you yourself called red flags.

On your second point, I do agree. I just find it bizarre, fishy, and hardly an example of any kind of psychotherapy I've ever seen, and I'm no stranger to it either.
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DannyB on the internet:I CALLED A LAWYER TODAY TO SEE IF I COULD SUE YOUR ASSES FOR DOING THIS BUT THAT WAS NOT POSSIBLE.

CCMGirl on program restraints: "DON\'T TAZ ME BRO!!!!!"

TheWho on program survivors: "From where I sit I see all the anit-program[sic] people doing all the complaining and crying."

Offline psy

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Carlbrook
« Reply #1835 on: December 29, 2006, 11:56:34 PM »
Quote from: ""Nihilanthic""
Its not. The impact letters, lack of un-monitored communication, nutrition, hygene, isolation, coersion, and other ethnical issues are already present and have already been addressed. Same for saying they fix ADD, ADHD... blah blah blah... and other things you yourself called red flags.

On your second point, I do agree. I just find it bizarre, fishy, and hardly an example of any kind of psychotherapy I've ever seen, and I'm no stranger to it either.


true.  those things that were mentioned are red flags.  but the thing karen just described is not.  a weak argument hurts your case more than no argument at all.
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Benchmark Young Adult School - bad place [archive.org link]
Sue Scheff Truth - Blog on Sue Scheff
"Our services are free; we do not make a profit. Parents of troubled teens ourselves, PURE strives to create a safe haven of truth and reality." - Sue Scheff - August 13th, 2007 (fukkin surreal)

Offline Nihilanthic

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Carlbrook
« Reply #1836 on: December 29, 2006, 11:58:14 PM »
So forced discosure not being as bad as really horrific things that exist out there being focused on and all the other variables being crowded out of the discussion makes it look not-so-bad?

Thats nice... but all the other bad stuff doesn't go away becuase something that I thought was bad is merely "not that bad".

OK. But yeah, fine, I'll drop it until I get a medical professional's opinion on it.
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DannyB on the internet:I CALLED A LAWYER TODAY TO SEE IF I COULD SUE YOUR ASSES FOR DOING THIS BUT THAT WAS NOT POSSIBLE.

CCMGirl on program restraints: "DON\'T TAZ ME BRO!!!!!"

TheWho on program survivors: "From where I sit I see all the anit-program[sic] people doing all the complaining and crying."

Offline Anonymous

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Carlbrook
« Reply #1837 on: December 30, 2006, 12:21:37 AM »
Brat Camp is helping to boost enrollment in WT but as long as the cameras are rolling, it's unlikely any kid is going to die from dehydration or hyperthermia, which is the good news.  THe bad news is WT is inherently risky and smart parents know it's foolish to play with their child's life.  I mean, after all, the idea is to save their kid, not pay to have him killed in a freak accident (tree branch falling on head) or falling into a deep crevice and sustaining fatal head injuries.  I still say pitch a tent in your backyard and make the kid live in it for 6 weeks.  Reward them big time and use the money you saved on a nice family vacation.   :lol:
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Offline Nihilanthic

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Carlbrook
« Reply #1838 on: December 30, 2006, 12:23:04 AM »
The whole isolation/filth/coersion/being in the middle of nowhere for no reason/stress/exhaustion/IMPACT LETTER/confrontational thing matters a little bit too, yanno?

Seeing as any therapy that happens is just therapy, period, and it didn't have to be in the fucking woods.
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DannyB on the internet:I CALLED A LAWYER TODAY TO SEE IF I COULD SUE YOUR ASSES FOR DOING THIS BUT THAT WAS NOT POSSIBLE.

CCMGirl on program restraints: "DON\'T TAZ ME BRO!!!!!"

TheWho on program survivors: "From where I sit I see all the anit-program[sic] people doing all the complaining and crying."

Offline Anonymous

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Carlbrook
« Reply #1839 on: December 30, 2006, 12:42:26 AM »
This thread is laying the foundation to the eventual closing of all abusive programs.
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Offline Nihilanthic

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Carlbrook
« Reply #1840 on: December 30, 2006, 12:43:26 AM »
Go search for my thread of "how about some damn ANSWERS" trying to get WWASPIES to explain how their program works, what it does, and how it does it...

Only 40 pages until it was totally clear it was bupkus, but hey, that came a long time before this  :lol:
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DannyB on the internet:I CALLED A LAWYER TODAY TO SEE IF I COULD SUE YOUR ASSES FOR DOING THIS BUT THAT WAS NOT POSSIBLE.

CCMGirl on program restraints: "DON\'T TAZ ME BRO!!!!!"

TheWho on program survivors: "From where I sit I see all the anit-program[sic] people doing all the complaining and crying."

Offline Anonymous

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Carlbrook
« Reply #1841 on: December 30, 2006, 12:44:50 AM »
Quote from: ""Nihilanthic""
Go search for my thread of "how about some damn ANSWERS" trying to get WWASPIES to explain how their program works, what it does, and how it does it...

Only 40 pages until it was totally clear it was bupkus, but hey, that came a long time before this  :lol:


Could of told ya that in one sentence. 40 pages? I think you just proved TSW's point.
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Offline Nihilanthic

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Carlbrook
« Reply #1842 on: December 30, 2006, 12:46:53 AM »
I engaged programmies and dealt with their feints, parries, spin-doctoring and bullshit until they gave up.

And it helped Perrigaud come around... it wasn't totally useless!
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DannyB on the internet:I CALLED A LAWYER TODAY TO SEE IF I COULD SUE YOUR ASSES FOR DOING THIS BUT THAT WAS NOT POSSIBLE.

CCMGirl on program restraints: "DON\'T TAZ ME BRO!!!!!"

TheWho on program survivors: "From where I sit I see all the anit-program[sic] people doing all the complaining and crying."

Offline Anonymous

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Carlbrook
« Reply #1843 on: December 30, 2006, 12:49:29 AM »
I printed this thread on tissue paper so I can wipe my ass with your posts TSW.
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Offline Nihilanthic

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Carlbrook
« Reply #1844 on: December 30, 2006, 12:50:04 AM »
Fornit's all natural anti constipation cure!
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DannyB on the internet:I CALLED A LAWYER TODAY TO SEE IF I COULD SUE YOUR ASSES FOR DOING THIS BUT THAT WAS NOT POSSIBLE.

CCMGirl on program restraints: "DON\'T TAZ ME BRO!!!!!"

TheWho on program survivors: "From where I sit I see all the anit-program[sic] people doing all the complaining and crying."
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