Carlbrook

[Nihilanthic]

Shortly after I drop an asteroid on Jamaica?

Oh wait, is that just out-of-this-world daydreaming or terrerism?  :roll:

[Anonymous]

Kind of hard to burn down a wilderness program. They will just move the registration trailer somewhere down the road.

[Nihilanthic]

Nukes ruin whole countries for eons....  ::hehehmm::

[Anonymous]

Aren't they already marching the kids out over where the atomic testing was done pretty much? Hey johnny, watch out for the crater!

[Nihilanthic]

That's New Mexico/Nevada.... and that place seems pretty cordoned off. It would be pretty cool to find some trinitite, though!

At any rate I really wish they'd hurry up and dig up that ship all this nonsense came off of  :rofl: funny how all this shit started up not too long after Roswell.

[Charly]

Niles-   You aren't going to like this, but my son deserved to lose all those things at that particular time.  He agrees with that.  He lost the right to have them.  That's what a "consequence" is all about.  Wilderness was a consequence as well as a therapeutic opportunity.

This was 3 1/2 years ago.  I will write tomorrow what I can remember about the day to day structure of the program.  I know the head therapist was in the field with the group two days a week.  The support (field) staff was good-  no, they did not have advanced degrees, but my son thought most of them were pretty good.  They had pretty basic food, but it was varied.  The groups were single sex.  They hiked pretty far each day but had some days off from hiking.  They learned a lot about the flora and fauna of the region and the stars etc.  They had phases they had to work through.  They were required to write a letter home every week which got faxed to us.  They had to read their impact letters that we (parents) wrote out loud to the group.  These were very telling because the story thekid had presented to the group was quite a bit different than what the parents revealed in the letter.  Staff was in constant touch with the head therapist throughout the week for updates and changes to the kid's program and assignments.  They did several solos.  I think my son did a 2 or 3 day solo during his second stint.  He liked it.  He read a lot and wrote a lot.  They could have cameras and he took pictures.  He was in a group with some pretty bad kids (some with real social problems) because of the thing with the escorts and some of them really tested his tolerance level.  Working with one of them actually became one of his assignments.  We didn't get a civil letter for about a month or 6 weeks.  We spent a couple hours a week on the phone with the therapists.  We could call the field office for info at any time.  They were good with necessary meds (asthma, Advil etc).   A PhD psychologist administered a battery of clinical tests out in the field and wrote a report which was extremely comprehensive.  
During the last week we had a couple of phone conversations with our son on the satellite phone.  He was not told when he was leaving, but he had to agree to the next placement before he could leave.  We went for his transition and spent the night in the field with him and the other kids/parents who were leaving.  We did some therapy sessions both in group and alone with our son and the therapist and our son cooked us dinner at our campsite.  
That's all for now.

[Anonymous]

What the hell do I care why, when, how, or what went on with Karen's kid?

 

[Charly]

Sorry- duplicate

[Anonymous]

Hells Bells!  What's with all the program apologists burrowing into Fornits?  Have they found a home for their wayward souls?

Look, Niles is right.  Most of the kids forced into these so-called emotional growth boarding schools don't need to be detained in a highly restrictive, custodial facility which in and of itself, opens the door to the potential for abuse.  They are the victims of a failed marriage.  Over achieving parents.  Dysfunctional family units.  They are in essence, being blamed for the failure of their parents.  This has been brought out through research and testimonals.  

Second: A good program does not pay for referrals.  A good program does not use coercive thought control to cure teens of unwanted behavior otherwise known as "adolescence".

Parents who ship their kids off to locked boarding schools sight unseen are guilty of negligence.  Using a transport service should not be an option.  Parents who can't take their kids themselves have other options.  They are just too lazy or rich to explore them. Schools who accept kids taken by force should be BANNED.  The list goes on.  But Niles is on board tonight, and I trust he will drive these points and others home, if things get too apologetic.   :lol:

Carry on folks.  In the end, parents must ask themselves what they would do if these private lock-down facilities didn't exist.  Hmmm???  Anybody have an answer?

[psy]

Second Wilderness...


Please................ spare me.. Take two seconds to look over what they claim to treat.


Then use common sense.


Can you connect the dots of these letters?


F


r


a

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d

While i would normally agree with you, I can't find any allegations of abuse.  You have to admit that is rare for a program.  It does happen though...  programs do slip under the radar... but after looking at their website, seeing the amount of staff and their qualifications, and the lengths they claim to go to to protect the kids...  It does look legit.  I still support shutting the entire industry down because in my mind it isn't worth the risk.

There is no discussion here really. Just the same cyclic sematics. More rhetoric of the same sad sort that fornits is becoming famous for. What the hell do I care why, when, how, or what went on with Karen's kid?

Then why are you posting in this thread at this time, when the conversation is exactly that?  Don't let your bitterness get the better of you.

Most of it is stuff of internet legends. We haven't heard the uncensored truth from her own kid. We never will. He either won't post on Fornits, or he will post but knows mum is watching like a hawk. So will we ever get his unfilter version of the story?

Ever occur to you that he might not want to.  Loads of kids I know just want to "leave it in the past" or "forget about it". You know what i'm talking about.

The kid's not living with the parent, why should he fear what his mom has to say about his postings.

Not a fracking chance.

The only question in my mind is when do we get a god damn flame thrower and reduce Second Nature and Carlbrook to ashes?

When we get the parents to convince other parents not to be stupid.  There are loads of ways to kill programs, one of which is explaining to parents of program kids exactly what happened to their kids in program, having them talk to their kids about it, and seeing where it goes from there.  If nothing else it gets parents and kids closer together, helping to heal the rift that the program creates.

[Nihilanthic]

Punishment STILL is not therapy, Karen. Talk to ANY psychologist and they would tell you an austere environment and/or punishment or any programmie nonsense is not what you do to help fix a child who has actual problems.

If they have problems, you dont punish, you help, you treat, you find out what's wrong. Yet somehow we seem to have simultaneously punitive.. nonsense thats ineffective and more about revenge than anything else intertwined with quackery!

It is good to know at least to your face he acts like he deserved it... he definitely learned well from carlbrook in that regard at the least.

But yeah, forced reading of "impact"  :rofl: (where do you people come up with this nonsense? Why not just call it 'intended to cause a breakdown or psychological effect' letter...) before group? Forced writing of a letter that is FAXED and thus seen by staff?

Thats not therapeutic, not helpful in any way, and its nonsense, period.

So he learned about plants animals and stars and shit, but what does that have to do with his actual problems and the camp's practices which are questionable at best?

Were those "solo's" forced? What if the kid didn't like it and was made to? I'm sure we all saw bratcamp... all that touchy feely nonsense doesn't really materialize in the real world, and isolation can be really bad to a kid who is not of the sort who would benefit from it with introspection. Panic can set in and while thats good for thought reform, its a bad thing for a person and a horrible thing to allow to happen.

Also, as we've learned from the counselors who have posted here, they are watching anyway, just far away and give verbal warning before coming up so they dont catch the kid masturbating, which clearly necessitates all that time alone  :roll:

BTW, just what is this "group therapy" you speak of, Karen? Is it anything like the IMPACT LETTERS? Confrontational and humiliation based?

Also, do you not see the problem with not letting someone know when they can get out?

And why would you have to agree on the next placement before you can go anywhere? How is that therapetuic?

No offence to Psy, but this seems just like every other wilderness camp... using isolation and austerity (an extreme, isolated environment) and literally dispensing survival to these people, forcing them to do things, psycho-nonsense like IMPACT LETTERS and not knowing whats going on.

I'm gonna side with TSW on this one. Its nonsense. I see no actual therapy and a lot of the same old bullshit with a brand new wrapper.

Oh, and what sort of punishments or coersion did they use to people who didn't do what they were told, Karen?

[Anonymous]

They had phases they had to work through.  They were required to write a letter home every week which got faxed to us.  They had to read their impact letters that we (parents) wrote out loud to the group.  These were very telling because the story the kid had presented to the group was quite a bit different than what the parents revealed in the letter.  Staff was in constant touch with the head therapist throughout the week for updates and changes to the kid's program and assignments.

One solution fits all. So the parents publically humiliate their kids as therapy? Think back to your teenage years and think what your parents would have said about you. Think about more vindictive parents who take it as their first time to air all their grievences. Then the whole group gets to see you breakdown emotionally.

He was in a group with some pretty bad kids (some with real social problems) because of the thing with the escorts and some of them really tested his tolerance level.  Working with one of them actually became one of his assignments.

Do you think the other kid's parents were paying all that money, for your kid to help him with his severe social problems? Do you think your kid might have been fearful during his stay?

We didn't get a civil letter for about a month or 6 weeks.  

It takes time for hopelessness to settle in completely.

[psy]

Hells Bells!  What's with all the program apologists burrowing into Fornits?  Have they found a home for their wayward souls?

There are no program apologists here AFAIK.  You wouldn't believe the things I privately advocate to take out programs *waves to you know who*.  I hate programs.  Hate them.  Personal experience.

This is not about advocating or attacking, at least not to me, it's about open exchange of information.  I believe that if people honestly knew what went on in these programs their minds would change.

Carry on folks.  In the end, parents must ask themselves what they would do if these private lock-down facilities didn't exist.  Hmmm???  Anybody have an answer?

That is a question we need to definitively answer...  And if we could, the demand for programs would drop.  No demand, no supply.  You want one way to kill programs?  That's how.

I have too much on my plate right now (a program to crush, a certain ED-con organization to humiliate, a portfolio, etc etc...)  If people can come up with some good program alternatives... great.

[Nihilanthic]

Hells Bells!  What's with all the program apologists burrowing into Fornits?  Have they found a home for their wayward souls?

Look, Niles is right.  Most of the kids forced into these so-called emotional growth boarding schools don't need to be detained in a highly restrictive, custodial facility which in and of itself, opens the door to the potential for abuse.  They are the victims of a failed marriage.  Over achieving parents.  Dysfunctional family units.  They are in essence, being blamed for the failure of their parents.  This has been brought out through research and testimonals.  

Second: A good program does not pay for referrals.  A good program does not use coercive thought control to cure teens of unwanted behavior otherwise known as "adolescence".

Parents who ship their kids off to locked boarding schools sight unseen are guilty of negligence.  Using a transport service should not be an option.  Parents who can't take their kids themselves have other options.  They are just too lazy or rich to explore them. Schools who accept kids taken by force should be BANNED.  The list goes on.  But Niles is on board tonight, and I trust he will drive these points and others home, if things get too apologetic.   :lol:

Carry on folks.  In the end, parents must ask themselves what they would do if these private lock-down facilities didn't exist.  Hmmm???  Anybody have an answer?

It would make my night if you'd come out of the shadows and send me a PM or otherwise contact me (instant messenger...) so I know who you are. I can keep a secret... I've kept plenty already as you already (don't) know.

[Anonymous]

In the end, parents must ask themselves what they would do if these private lock-down facilities didn't exist. Hmmm??? Anybody have an answer?

Pay some street thugs to rough up their kid for a while so they fearfully come home in appreciation for what they have?

Go back in time 150 years, send my kid out west to spend some time with the native indians and have him partake in a coming of age ceremony where he is left out in the wilderness for a few days?

Put 100 doses of LSD in my kid's breakfast cereal, then tie them down and force them to watch barney for weeks on end until they are a huggable, loveable, child like creature once again?