Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform > The Troubled Teen Industry

Carlbrook

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try another castle:

--- Quote ---You adapt for the sake of survival.
--- End quote ---

word.



--- Quote ---By the end of my stay the kids were getting younger and less "bad".
--- End quote ---

Yes, excellent observation. By the time I was there, most everyone fit into the "hysterical parents sent me here" category, but the people who were at CEDU at its beginnings and through the 70s were more often than not hard core junkies, homeless, and most (at the beginning) were actually adults, same as the people who began going to synanon (then it got full blown culty and had families and square gamers there). Mel then realized what a cash cow he had on his hands and opened up the RS  high school.

Not to say punitive techniques and overall new agey dogma would help the original clientelle, but it's harshness was a result of a backlash to the whole hippie movement.

Which proves my point that I have maintained all along... hippies ruin everything.

Anonymous:
I've been following this thread the last couple of days. I was at RMA for about 1.5 years in the early 80s. Arrived after E Adams and left for the next option, a mental hospital, while facing yet another fulltime (my parents considered Provo too). I've been thinking about how parents come here on Fornits to get information. I've actually been thinking about this since I went to RMA, well, probably way before that, when my relationship with my parents deteriorated. (BTW, now it's fine. We all grew up.) And now that I have my own kids, and a husband to parent with, the picture has only become more nuanced.

This is what I would say to those parents. I don't envy them.

Mostly, parents aren't looking at an emotional growth/behavior modification program for their child unless they feel there has been a significant breach of some sort. If you are a parent on the Fornits site, you are likely getting to the end of your proverbial rope. You have exhausted the parenting tools you have. You are discouraged, heartbroken, pissed off and tired. And you want your kid to be/feel/behave better, and you want some time for your other kids, and you want a little peace. Now, not all parents start out with the same tools. My patience may be your permissiveness - for all sorts of things from attention to school work, to drugs, to sexual activity. You may not understand your child. For a whole host of reasons. You may have  personalities that clash.  And you are trying to balance a whole family's interests. There are vastly different ideas of what (un)acceptable behavior is. Hence entry into programs from a kid that is sent away for breaking into daddy's wine cellar, to the addict that is kidnapped and transported to a program from living on the street.  So I would say: does your kid get a choice? Even if it's between two programs - do they have any ownership of the ultimate decision? Make sure they know you love them. Are you sure they know that? And I agree, if you don't alraedy feel way past this point, it's worth trying something like the aunt approach first. A little distance can do wonders.

try another castle:

--- Quote ---There are vastly different ideas of what (un)acceptable behavior is. Hence entry into programs from a kid that is sent away for breaking into daddy's wine cellar, to the addict that is kidnapped and transported to a program from living on the street. So I would say: does your kid get a choice? Even if it's between two programs - do they have any ownership of the ultimate decision? Make sure they know you love them. Are you sure they know that? And I agree, if you don't alraedy feel way past this point, it's worth trying something like the aunt approach first. A little distance can do wonders.
--- End quote ---


word x2

And the programs provide what seems like a one solution fits all approach. Is  your kid a junkie with a record? We're perfect. Is your kid suffering from depression and his grades are slipping? Try us. Is your kid a flaming queen and into wicca? We'll whip him into shape.

Also excellent point about the ownership question. When my parents decided to place me for the first time, I had a say, and I ended up at a childrens home which was, for the most part, pretty cool. The second time? Well, it started out that way, but good ol CEDU explained to them that the only way to get me up there was either by deception or a big fat guy who kinda looked like baby huey knocking on my bedroom door at 5am.

So, yes. BIG FAT RED FLAG, if the place tells you to deceive your child or not keep them in the loop.

Anonymous:
I accept that these places are more traumatic for some kids than others.  I also accept that some kids straighten out from sheer fear of going back. (although many say they didnt)Lets face it if you are a 17 year old stoner who does six months there & your parents are genuinely sympathetic when you tell them it didnt help, you are going to be a lot less damaged & more philosophical about it than if you went in for something minor at 14 and were locked away for your entire childhood. But even if you are the older badder and less damaged kid and it did straighten out some of your worst behaviors do you think it is wise for a western democracy to allow families to lock up their more difficult family members? Does the idea of compulsory incarceration (even in a nice jail) without being convicted of a crime worry you?

I can also see how if the approach were not punitive or one size fits all some kids would benefit from some activities that these schools have. I remember an episode of British brat camp with a really smart & insightful kid with an apparently hardcore love of drugs. Her mother wrote her a letter pointing out the effect of her behavior when she is stoned on the family. She made particular reference to the girls many petty legal issues. It did get her thinking. But then like everything they did they took it to a fucked up humiliating extreme & forced her to read it to the other girls until she was a blubbering mess. Moreover another girl got a similar letter about the effect her uncontrollable mental illnes had on the mother. SHe too was forced to humiliate herself & read it publically. The idea of shaming a kid with a bonafide mental illness seemed as stupid to me as yelling at someone for having cancer. But even the kid that made a breakthrough and who had misbehaved did so before they forced her to publically embarrass herself, so it seemed it was a totally unneccesary extra step designed to serve no other purpose than to make her feel like shit.

I also appreciate for many families it is a grave and difficult decision. I also think some are shallow & rich enough to hide the embarrasing kid in a gulag the way most of us throw an ugly clock into the closet. But whether it is the rich asshole or the despearate parent looking for help, it seems to me that in the west we are becoming such a convenience culture that when anyone or think becomes a burden we throw money at it and look the other way.

E Adams:
2 cents - I will try and be as clear as I can about it, with the certain understanding that some had a different experience than I had (some bad and I will not deny that), but for me and for the vast majority of the people that I know and still speak to that went through the exact same thing that I did, it was not viewed as a torture chamber, gulag, prison, etc. And the people I talk to are largely happy and I would say more successful than most. While it is true that I did not voluntarily go there, and while it is true that I was yelled at and that I moved rocks up hills and down hills, and saw a lot of really "weird" things, I did not feel like I was in any way being tortured. In fact, I laughed while I was there, I had fun, I ate healthy and exercised, I made friendships that have lasted 25+ years, I learned things that I still find value in today. I also disagreed with many things however. I will grant you, it was not perfect, and as I've already stated I would not send my children there today (if it even still existed). But the fact is, when I see people like "Guest" (in particular) ranting about something that is in no way (not in the details or even in the most general sense) at all even remotely like the "program" that I went through I must say that it is a bit baffling. But 2 cents, I would agree with this, that many problems originated when people came to the program that were just not well suited for it - and I think the school is responsible for that, and the educational counselors are responsible for it, and I think the parents did a lackluster job in their "research".   But those type situations were not the rule while I was there. It may have become like that but it wasn't the case based on my personal experience.  
I've read some other things on this board over the past few days. TAC, psy (I believe it is?) - and I understand what they are saying, I see their side of it, I sense sincerity, I see a point. In fact, I would probably, if we sat down in a room and just talked, get along with them marvelously and vice versa. We would disagree on things certainly, but we could have a sensible debate on anything we disagreed about, and probably laugh at some of the more ridiculous stuff. But there are others who have taken up this sort of conspiratorial crusade and are just firing scattershot at every opinion or fact or story that doesn't jibe with their own preconceived notion. I KNEW Tim Brace. I knew DK-B, I went to CEDU first and split (no one tried to physically stop me by the way), was gone a week, went to RMA, was approximately the 30th student, lived on the campus at the same time Mel did. I did a fulltime, multiple work details, was placed on bans from virtually everyone, was "blown away", went through every propheet, 3 workshops (there was 1 additional ws my peergroup went through between the Values & Imagine - that was then discontinued). I saw many changes and trials and error and a large turnover in staff, and students (particularly early).
And then there are people like "Guest". Guest almost assuredly did NOT go to the place I went to. And yet he has a stronger opinion of it than I do - and his facts are wrong. BAD wrong in many instances. And yet "Guest" accused me of all sorts of crap and lying and gives people shameless advice and has appointed himself an authority on the subject - a subject he knows NOTHING about. Either he is lying, not who he says he is, or he NEVER went there and knows nothing about it - maybe other than some pieces of scrap he picked up here or there and is trying to make a bad quilt out of. All fabricated and simplified. And honestly, I am yet to decipher that brilliant work on "subjectivity" he composed for me. Dizzying stuff. (Off the subject a bit but I wonder if perhaps Guest isn't the "staff troll" - due to mistpealings and ynconsystuncies among other things? Well, actually, it would probably be beyond their capabilities - but if you really wanted to discredit somone's opinion you couldn't invent a better character to do it with than a guy like that.)    
Anyway, I will concede that perhaps the place changed, maybe it was COMPLETELY different after I left, maybe it became some terror gulag thought reform mind control place. But my feeling is that would have taken a lot more firepower than what they had when I was around. To a large extent the staff just weren't bright enough or capable enough or creative enough to pull that off. The ones who were (if there were any?) probably wouldn't want to. At least I would hope that would be the case?  
However I may seem here to people on the written page, I am not trying to bamboozle anyone - I am neither ugly nor dumb, I am not a great "follower", I am independent minded, a skeptic by nature, I am in a field completely unrelated to the "troubled teen industry". I am just some guy. And a parent. I have no agenda and no motivation other than the fact that over the weekend through some (perhaps fortuitous) turn of events, I found my way to this board. And I posted something solely based on the fact that one of the first things I read was from the friend of a parent asking for advice - and some "raving idiot" who had probably never even met any of the people being discussed flew off on some wild (and very unhelpful I would add) tangent about how Tim Brace was a child killing murderer and a death camp monster (paraphrased, but not far off). My next (and somewhat impulsive) act was to type a quick comment stating that from my experience that was just not the case.  
There are worse places than the one I went to. There are better ones I'm sure. I agree with many things people have posted, about secrecy and hypocricy, and I agree that it affected people differently, but if there is a thing that I am really incensed about its by the places that care more about a $ than the kid. There are lots of them.
As a parent, and perhaps something closer to me at this point, is the complete degeneracy and crap in our public  system. And I FULLY agree with TAC's comment on hippies -- just as an aside.

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