Carlbrook

[Anonymous]

When your kid says, "dad I want to stop, I don't want to keep living like this, but I don't know how," and when you're thinking that maybe you won't be there to rush him to the ER next time he comes too close to the edge, then you start to get desperate.

Is that you, dad?  :rofl: I had to finally make that shameful admission too with nowhere else to go, ended up spending a week in the hospital for heart valve damage, and so began my year long adventure in the teen help industry. When I got out of the hospital, the doctor gave me a prescription to valium and suggested NA meetings. :roll:

I agree that the complete lack of options is one reason why this industry is thriving. But the majority the kids I met in private programs had minor issues and never even tried anything other than pot. It really made me wonder.

[Charly]

Grades-  that's the thing.  That is NOT his motivation.  He was fortunate to graduate from a high school that emphasized learning for its own sake.  Reading the NY Times and Wall Street Journal every day were considered just as important as classroom work.  Going to lectures and discussing philosophy with peers was valued strongly.  It wasn't about grades.  
If this is grooming, so be it.  The result is a kid who loves to learn and has lots of interests.  He uses his writing skills for such things as winning the school history prize AND publishing an article on "Twenty Signs that You Have a Drinking Problem". (as you are aware)

[Anonymous]

Reading the NY Times and Wall Street Journal every day were considered just as important as classroom work.  

 :roll:  :roll:

[hanzomon4]

My son is much more of an elitist than I am.  He readily admits that.
Any psychiatric in-patient treatment has to be disclosed on applications to schools.  Not many schools will take that on.  Wilderness/Carlbrook preserved his options.

I sorry but I have to re-ask this one, I'm truly curious......

How did Wilderness preserve his options? I ask because most schools ask have you received psychiatric therapy or psychological counseling, which he did receive in Wilderness and Carlbrook.

@70's If you don't mind could you say what mental illness your son suffers with, it can be through pm if you don't want it on this thread.
Also did you want the detox to treat his mental illness or just the drug problem? I'm not talking about a detox program I mean the psych ward, and no you don't have to be crazy or suffer with mental illness to be put in one.

[Charly]

My kids' HAPPINESS is important to me, as well as their safety.  If they want to achieve success in one or more areas, I will do everything I can to give them the chance.

This isn't about my kids, though.   So- enough on that.

[Charly]

hanzo-  Wilderness was a summer deal, so not much about it had to go on any transcript.  The answer to counseling had to be "yes", of course, with a brief description of the issues.  Carlbrook did well with all that in his recs for the next school (s).  He did not receive psychiatric treatment- no meds were prescribed.  It all fit under "counseling".

[Anonymous]

This isn't about my kids, though.

Admitting the problem can begin the healing.  Congratulations on your first step.  It's not about your kids, hasn't ever been about your kids.  It's about you.  It's all about you.  It always has been about you.

[Anonymous]

hanzo-  Wilderness was a summer deal, so not much about it had to go on any transcript.  The answer to counseling had to be "yes", of course, with a brief description of the issues.  Carlbrook did well with all that in his recs for the next school (s).  He did not receive psychiatric treatment- no meds were prescribed.  It all fit under "counseling".

Which is how they get away with all that they do.  When it suits them, they're "therapeutic".  When it doesn't, it's "emotional growth".  Semanitcs.  It's the same fucking shit, slightly different wrapper.

[Anonymous]

70sPunk Rebel and the student who suffered the heart valve damage both make valid points:
This industry does thrive when parents become desparate,, and fear for their child's life.
And this is not the "dead-or-in-jail" slogan they are expressing. This is actual fear.

Luckily this father's son came home from his wilderness program and is doing good.  The student completed the "long year in the industry program."

BOTH still wonder what could and can be done better?
That was the question asked by PSY....and that is what parents seeking help here need answers to.

The answer is not a program; but somehow we must be prepared to offer alternatives that the parents who come here will listen to.

I

[Anonymous]

The answer is not a program; but somehow we must be prepared to offer alternatives that the parents who come here will listen to.

Yeah for me it was finally getting out of my parents house.

[hanzomon4]

hanzo-  Wilderness was a summer deal, so not much about it had to go on any transcript.  The answer to counseling had to be "yes", of course, with a brief description of the issues.  Carlbrook did well with all that in his recs for the next school (s).  He did not receive psychiatric treatment- no meds were prescribed.  It all fit under "counseling".

Ok, it would be the same in psych unit.... They don't make you take meds, although they might suggest it. I don't see how counseling or even psychiatric therapy(which he did not receive) would hurt his chances of getting into a good school, didn't hurt my chances. If you know different let me know...

Also wilderness camp is not a summer camp it's an inpatient facility like programs and psych wards

[Karass]

70sPunk Rebel and the student who suffered the heart valve damage both make valid points:
This industry does thrive when parents become desparate,, and fear for their child's life.
And this is not the "dead-or-in-jail" slogan they are expressing. This is actual fear.

Luckily this father's son came home from his wilderness program and is doing good.  The student completed the "long year in the industry program."

BOTH still wonder what could and can be done better?
That was the question asked by PSY....and that is what parents seeking help here need answers to.

The answer is not a program; but somehow we must be prepared to offer alternatives that the parents who come here will listen to.

I

Thank you, wise Guest. You're right, the answer is not a program. But sadly, the answer is not necessarily "community-based treatment" and "tough it out with the kid at home" either. Every individual person and family needs to find a path that works for them, and there is no such thing as "one size fits all" treatment. I have talked to lots of advocates about this, and have not yet found any good solutions to recommend to other struggling parents.

As I've said before, we got lucky. Lucky that he feels he was not abused in any way in the wilderness (I'm a little more skeptical, considering the psychological coercion applied), lucky that he is doing well now emotionally and that he seems to have a much better understanding of how his particular substance abuse behaviors related to his depression and quasi-suicidal tendencies. He has found something to live for, and "found his way" in the world. Wilderness may or may not have had anything to do with that, other than the fact that for better or worse, it was part of his journey. A well-known advocate told me "sorry you wasted your money" on wilderness, and my son's current therapist pretty much feels the same way. At this point, I can only be thankful that he's here now, happy and doing well, and so far the only damage seems to have been to my bank account, which will survive. The great thing about money is you can always make more.

My son freely admits that part of what he did out there was "walk the walk and talk the talk" just to get through it and do what was expected, with the immediate end-goal of "let me go home and don't send me to some fucking TBS like some of these other kids are getting sent to." He accomplished that, but he also accomplished a lot more. That was him responding to the situation he found himself in, and thinking about all the things that got him there, not some magic unproven therapeutic methods.

I will say though, that he thinks he got a lot more out of the dialogs he had with the field staffers -- the young fuckups with "7 days of training" (to quote TSW) -- than he did with the licensed therapists. Even though the 12-steps may be bogus, I do think there is some value in addicts helping other addicts. To be fair, not all of the field staffers were former substance abusers that had attended the wilderness program, but many of them were exactly that.

I will also say I was alarmed at the kids I met there (and the others my son told me about) who "really didn't need to be there." Not that my kid deserved to be there, but he truly understood why we took such a drastic step, and also understood that he was very prepared physically and by past experience for an intense survival experience. The same cannot be said for some of the other teens he met there. "What were their parents thinking?" he wondered about some of them.

[Karass]

That's interesting, since I have really good insurance and they wouldn't pay fuck-all for this quack therapy. Not that I really expected them to, but hey it's worth a try. As for fucking off in Europe, that would've been a waste of time and money. I didn't sleep much the whole time he was gone. I used to fly around on Google Earth in the mountains I knew he was in, wondering where he was, what he was doing, was he hungry, tired, and all of that. I wrote to him about that in a letter and he later told me he really appreciated it. Of course, what he appreciated a lot more was the letter that said "I don't care what your therapists say, you're not going to a TBS, you're coming home with us."

[Karass]

In retrospect, we might have done as well or better with a couple of 3-grand-apiece Outward Bound trips. It would've been peanuts compared to what we spent, and we would've had the opportunity to experience it with him.

On the other hand, Outward Bound killed a couple people this summer, so they aren't necessarily so great either. We've done pretty well with our own private wilderness excursions, but those didn't include "therapy." Then again, maybe they did and we just didn't know it. Or maybe they did include it just as much or as little as the official Program.

Our next excursion to Utah will be for a skiing/snowboarding trip in a month or so. I jokingly said "hey you can walk up the mountain just like in the wilderness program," and he politely said "fuck you Dad, you can buy me a lift ticket." I take it as a positive sign that now we can joke about his wilderness experience. Like when we hiked in the mountains a couple days ago and found ourselves in a place we thought would be an awesome campsite to come back to in warmer weather. I said something like, "hey, you can build a bow-drill fire and we'll have an awesome time here." He whipped out his Bic lighter and lit a cigarette and said, "why would I use a bow drill when I've got one of these?"

[Karass]

But it's a tough thing to do when I smoke too. The "do as I say not as I do" method of parenting never worked very well when my parents raised me, and I never thought it would work very well on my kids either.