Carlbrook

[Anonymous]

A lot of parents consider an "embarrassing kid" to be a problem more than the harm a kid does to his/herself.  My parents often harped on "do you realize how much you have embarrassed us / brought shame on us!"

The "country club" was just an example of an elite social engagement in which kids are often the topic of converstion (EG: "My kid is in Harvard!!!"..."Well... my kid is in MIT.. so there!"..."so what about your kid Emma..."..."My kid's at a psych hospital down the street").

Which is exactly how Charly has come across over the years.  Here too, but mostly over on ST.  Exactly.

Well.  In retrospect, might your kid have changed on his own with out / impatient therapy?

She'll never know.

[AtomicAnt]

"The entire process is designed to force your son into disclosing his innermost, private thoughts and then force him to change them to conform with what the program and by extension you think they should be."

That is false, especially in the case of 2N.  My son's private thoughts are just that.  My son's actions became my business.  My son's reasons for these actions were something he needed to work out in therapy.  He was able to avoid doing this at home.  He wasn't able to avoid it as easily, and chose to engage in therapy, at 2N.

Amazing, you say it isn't true then prove it is true in the same paragraph! The program forces your son to engage in it. It is the same thing. He cannot 'avoid it' like he did at home.

You cannot engage in the sort therapy these programs use without disclosure and/or confession, then accepting their interpretation of it. That is the basis for how these programs work. It is also what makes them immoral. The therapy is coerced. The boy had no choice at all.

Change or we will continue to apply pressure until you do! You can suger coat it any way you want. You can rationalize the hell out of it, but the cold truth still stands. Choice is removed from the equation.

You use the word "needed" as in "he needed." He did not need anything. He could have gone on through his whole life with his issues unresolved. You decided what he "needed."

[psy]

Change or we will continue to apply pressure until you do! You can suger coat it any way you want. You can rationalize the hell out of it, but the cold truth still stands. Choice is removed from the equation.

And the lack of choice is exactly what makes it unethical (and incidentally, doomed to failure in the long-run).

[hanzomon4]

Charly, could you explain how a stay in a hospital psych ward is more detrimental to his education then a wilderness camp?

[Charly]

My son is much more of an elitist than I am.  He readily admits that.
Any psychiatric in-patient treatment has to be disclosed on applications to schools.  Not many schools will take that on.  Wilderness/Carlbrook preserved his options.

He did not feel wilderness was abusive or that he was forced to change.  

Yes, he could have gone through life not working on some of the things that were causing him problems.  He could have also continued to be kicked out of schools and off teams, gotten arrested or hurt himself or someone else more seriously than he had up to that point.

He might have changed on his own, and probably did a lot of the changing ON his own (Carlbrook and beyond).  However, he couldn't stay at home.  Nothing was changing there.

[psy]

My son is much more of an elitist than I am.  He readily admits that.
Any psychiatric in-patient treatment has to be disclosed on applications to schools.  Not many schools will take that on.

 

To me, it seems a bit like this:  I get into a car crash.  I don't want the crash to look bad on my insurance, so i go and get it fixed at a dodgy car repair facility where the fixing will never show up on carreports.com (thereby preserving the resale value).

Of course by doing something like that, I take the risk that, due to the crappy labor, the wheels just might pop off at some point, killing a myriad of bystanders, pets, and hopefully an ed-con or two.

Next time i go see the head-shrinker i'm going to ask him about program alternatives.  Hopefully he has a few ideas.

[Anonymous]

My son is much more of an elitist than I am.  He readily admits that.

Did he attend private schools for the majority of his fundamental education?

He did not feel wilderness was abusive or that he was forced to change.  

Of course not,  He believes it helped him "reveal" or "discover" his "true self" or "potential" (god I fucking HATED that word, still do).  It "challenged" him to "dig deep", right?   Yep, me too once upon a time.

Yes, he could have gone through life not working on some of the things that were causing him problems.  He could have also continued to be kicked out of schools and off teams, gotten arrested or hurt himself or someone else more seriously than he had up to that point.

He might have changed on his own, and probably did a lot of the changing ON his own (Carlbrook and beyond).  However, he couldn't stay at home.  Nothing was changing there.

And now it sounds like you have exactly what you paid for.  Another elitist, silver spoon kid who'll no doubt grow into the proper corporate whore you've raised him to be with an ulcer and a heart attack by 40.

Congrats on your new and improved kid.   :roll:

[psy]

Of course not,  He believes it helped him "reveal" or "discover" his "true self" or "potential" (god I fucking HATED that word, still do).  It "challenged" him to "dig deep", right?   Yep, me too once upon a time.

I know exactly what you mean.  That's why i asked her to ask her kid if he feels as if he became a "new person" or found his "true self".  Apparantly, his answer was no.  He's very physically fit and i'm not sure if wilderness was able to put the same type of pressure on him they might have been able to put on others.

[Charly]

Yes, he went to private school for all his schooling.  Public schools were terrible where we lived.  I wanted my kids to have the best education possible.  They both appreciate it.

I doubt that he'll be a corporate whore.  He's shooting a little higher than that.  I don't think ulcers or heart attacks are in his future, either.

Thanks, he did improve a lot!

[hanzomon4]

My son is much more of an elitist than I am.  He readily admits that.
Any psychiatric in-patient treatment has to be disclosed on applications to schools.  Not many schools will take that on.  Wilderness/Carlbrook preserved his options.

How did Wilderness preserve his options? I ask because most schools ask have you received psychiatric therapy or psychological counseling, which he did receive in Wilderness and Carlbrook.

[Anonymous]

Yes, he went to private school for all his schooling.  Public schools were terrible where we lived.  I wanted my kids to have the best education possible.

Surprise, surprise, surprise!  :roll:

They both appreciate it.

They don't know anything else.  They've been groomed for what you want for their lives and convinced them it was their idea.  This kid never had a chance.  You made sure of that.




Lady, it's people like you that scare the shit out of me and make me fear for the future of civilization.

[psy]

My son is much more of an elitist than I am.  He readily admits that.
Any psychiatric in-patient treatment has to be disclosed on applications to schools.  Not many schools will take that on.  Wilderness/Carlbrook preserved his options.

How did Wilderness preserve his options? I ask because most schools ask have you received psychiatric therapy or psychological counseling, which he did receive in Wilderness and Carlbrook.

That's just it.  they "fix" the problems.  Just not officially.  See the car analogy.  Why do most programs call themselves "emotional growth" or whatnot?

[Anonymous]

So karen does your kid thank you for sending him away?

[AtomicAnt]

He did not feel wilderness was abusive or that he was forced to change.  

Yes, he could have gone through life not working on some of the things that were causing him problems.  He could have also continued to be kicked out of schools and off teams, gotten arrested or hurt himself or someone else more seriously than he had up to that point.

He might have changed on his own, and probably did a lot of the changing ON his own (Carlbrook and beyond).  However, he couldn't stay at home.  Nothing was changing there.

Glad to hear he feels he feels he wasn't forced.

The difference between my parents and you is that my Dad once told me, and I am paraphrasing, "All a parent can do is set a good example and teach their kids right from wrong as best they can. It is ultimately up to the kid what they do with that." My Dad was all about free choice and against any kind of 'blame the parent' mentality. If I had failed at life and tried to pin it on his lack of intervention, he would never have accepted that. At the same time, he would not have intervened much had I taken a 'wrong turn' either. My Dad always gave me good advice, but only when I asked him for it. We had few rules in the house and my friends always had more rules and restrictions than I did. I guess you could say he practiced a 'hands-off' approach to parenting. Thanks Dad.

For me, It's all about free will, and I guess I get that from my Dad. That's why I object to these coercive programs. It is every individual's right to chose their own path in life. Even if those choices lead to disaster.

Yes, your son could have gotten kicked out of more schools and off of more teams and that would have been his problem, not yours, and his choice, not yours. Maybe eventually, he would have wised up and sought help, on is own volition.

[Anonymous]

Because emotional growth is quackery, and because its not real therapy and has no goals, measurable anything, or quantified... well, anything at all, you can freely say it provides emotional growth and you're not required to prove or explain that its anything at all, so you can easily fool gullible twits with it?