Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform > Brat Camp
Unusually Resistant Kids, Or Softer Program
Anonymous:
--- Quote ---On 2005-07-24 15:06:00, Anonymous wrote:
"It's a tragedy that Aaron Bacon and others have died in these programs, but from what I read in the links you provided, the sources seem rather shady and sensationalist. You need to take into account that there is a mortality rate involved. Several kids have died in camps, but given the amount of kids that have gone through these programs, there is an assumed risk (especially with problematic children) that something may go wrong. I'd like to know what Aaron Bacon actually died of, since there was no mention of an autopsy in the article and one would've definitely been performed in this case. More than likely, Aaron had some sort of disorder/disability/etc, unknown to anybody, that caused him to stop breathing while being restrained. While I don't know exactly the circumstances that led him to Obsidian Trails, he could've easily had the same sort of physical restraint placed against him if he had resisted an arrest (not out of the question for kids placed in these programs).
As for the question of morals and omniscience...no one is completely innocent in any case. There are no perfect parents, there are no perfect children and there are no perfect therapists, etc. But does that excuse the child immediately upon those grounds? Definitely not. I don't want to sound too much like a parrot for wilderness therapy programs, they're definitely not for every problem child, and wilderness therapy was actually probably not for me (I had undiagnosed diabetes when I was sent to Sagewalk, program did not do much for me.) But I was witness to how things are run and I saw several kids that went there, including involuntaries, really take advantage of the opportunity and straighten themselves out. I'd love to continue typing but I need to go drop my cousin off at his baseball game.
Doug"
--- End quote ---
Hello Doug,
This is not drama. This is reality:
Eddie Lee died at Obsidian Trials. Of an injury so severe, experts claimed that had it happened in front of the hospital where he was taken, he still would not have survived.
Here's an extensive report:
http://www.teenadvocatesusa.org/opedarchives.html
Aaron Bacon died at North Star Expeditions, run by Jagger and Henry (formerly associated with the infamouse Steve Cartisano/Challenger.
Aaron died a horrific, agonizing death. Competent medical attention would have saved his life. Instead he was ridiculed and made to suffer the worst kind of abuse imaginable for 30 days. He died in the back seat of a truck. All alone, while his counselors talked and made fun of "the faker".
Disgusting and downright criminal behavior, if you ask me. IMO, justice was NOT served in this case, or any other case where a child died in the "name of therapy".
http://www.teenadvocatesusa.org/foreveryoung.html
See LOVING THEM TO DEATH by Jon Krakauer.
http://web.outsideonline.com/magazine/1 ... _deth.html
Barbe
TAUSA
Anonymous:
Doug ...
Why don't you try flying the "acceptable loss" excuse over at 63 days dot com?
I'm sure Ali and Jen would be glad to explain to you why that excuse is not acceptable to them (or any other kid) who survived one of these survival-style wilderness camps.
http://www.63days.com
Barbe
TAUSA
Antigen:
--- Quote ---On 2005-07-24 15:06:00, Anonymous wrote:
More than likely, Aaron had some sort of disorder/disability/etc, unknown to anybody, that caused him to stop breathing while being restrained.
--- End quote ---
That's exactly the problem. These sadistic, self deluded sons of bitches "knew" this kid was faking for a full month until he died. Same as you "know" the kids on Brat Camp are horrible kids who deserve what they get. Same as you "know" everybody who claims to have been abused by these people are making it all up, even the dead ones.
Speculations on the Origin of Human Intelligence: "In defense of the Pygmies, perhaps I should note that a friend of mine who has spent time with them says that for such activities as the patient stalking and hunting of mammals and fish they prepare themselves through marijuana intoxication, which helps to make the long waits, boring to anyone further evolved than a Komodo dragon, at least moderately tolerable. Ganja is, he says, their only cultivated crop. It would be wryly interesting if in human history the cultivation of marijuana led generally to the invention of agriculture, and thereby to civilization.
Carl Sagan - The Dragons of Eden - 1977
--- End quote ---
Anonymous:
--- Quote ---On 2005-07-24 15:40:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Doug ...
Why don't you try flying the "acceptable loss" excuse over at 63 days dot com?
I'm sure Ali and Jen would be glad to explain to you why that excuse is not acceptable to them (or any other kid) who survived one of these survival-style wilderness camps.
http://www.63days.com
Barbe
TAUSA"
--- End quote ---
Sorry if it came off that way, I didn't mean to belittle his death at all. But you must understand, with the amount of emotional drama involved with being displaced from your usual surroundings, there is a lot of "faking" and it is damned near impossible for any counselor to be able to tell the difference. I know first hand, I engaged in such "faking" such as throwing up and what have you. I just don't see the point in making these counselors out to be "murderers", many of these people who do this are former "punks and badasses" themselves, and hold a honest concern for the welfare of children.
YuckFou:
--- Quote ---On 2005-07-24 15:54:00, Anonymous wrote:
" many of these people who do this are former "punks and badasses" themselves, and hold a honest concern for the welfare of children."
--- End quote ---
This is one of the biggest problems with the industry.
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