Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform > The Troubled Teen Industry
Three Springs Alumni
Nihilanthic:
Yes, TSW, I dont know. It was all extremely vague and general, JUST like a lot of the kids getting sent off to WWASPS - vague, general indefensible (cant prove OR disprove) type of shit.
"I need to send my kid to a structured boarding school for self esteem to push her to excellence". Ok, yes, in the USA you are free to send your kid to some secured facility like that because you think she needs self esteem, but realistically speaking, how is that going to help a child? Ok youre gonna live here now and youre not free to go anywhere and you can only do what the school says, no friends, no freedom, bla bla bla.
But anyway, TSW, I got two bones to pick with you:
--- Quote ---You not thinking its a parent is based on an assumption claiming that her treatment terminology marks her as a troll. The same kind of treatment terminology used by many other posters on fornits on a regular basis that are not considered trolls.
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More than likely, shes not someone whose ben posting here a while! She came accross as someone who just got blown in with the wind that is Google (or some other search engine) who jumped in the thread asking for info on a program. Yeah, I do realize some people pick up those terms and use them, but most people STILL dont.
But regardless, why do you jump down my throat for being vague and general and not having facts when she did the same exact fucking thing? She just spills out a bunch of vague feel-good terminology, god damn at least she didnt say paragidm... and says becuase of that (such as SELF ESTEEM!!!1) she needs to send her kid off somewhere to get locked up for a long time. Wheres the standard there?
--- Quote ---Even with a demonstrated line of evidence right in front of your eyes, again look harder it's right in front of you, and no I won't enlighten you as I would be depriving you of an excellent characeter building opprotunity. Use your super dooper decoder ring from your secret organization, and the truth will be made aware to yourself!
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How about... I forget about this within the next 5 minutes and not ever give a damn? ::both::
I dont play games of vagueness where the person on the other end can use it to put you in a double bind, or just jerk you around... ESPECIALLY after you gave me a mouthfull over vagueness and assumption.
Either say it, or expect me to give about as much of a fuck as I do now. I respect you but when you say crap like that the last thing Im going to do is ruminate over it like some Zen Koan. I dont care! I dont play those kind of 'grasshoppah' bullshit type things!
A celibate clergy is an especially good idea because it tends to suppress any hereditary propensity toward fanaticism.
--Carl Sagan, American astronomer and author
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Nihilanthic:
ASS-U-ME LOL!!!1one
There, did I take the pebble out of your hand?
Now yeah, guess what? Im assuming. MY point is that people throw children away into programs on the same ground, nothing but bullshit thats vague, general, unsubstantiated and 'horse crap'... but thats okay?
I cant say "watch out, its bullshit, why not share some details?" But oh she can throw a kid in a lockin facility just because she feels like it?
The real lesson here is that theres a big double standard and becuase you worked for the industry, while I have not (and its no secret that Im very much not liking any of it at all right now) thus youre more inclined to just trust what Mrs Tweedle-Dum said about her kid. BTW, the vagueness in what she said is HER FAULT, not mine! I didnt choose what she said, she did, go bitch her out for saying vague unsubstantiated horse crap about her kid.
Hey, why dont YOU qualify, quantify, explain in a proof, etc, why a child needs to be kept in a secured 'boarding school' for self esteem issues and be pushed for excellence? Why the fuck cant a parent do that?
YOU are assuming that the child needs help and theres an actual problem, and that its an actual parent, unless either 1. you posted it anonymously yourself or 2. there is a correspondance Im not aware of.
P.S. - Wheres that program that would not take a child that was found to not really have anything wrong? Still lookin' fer one!
No citizen of a liberal and democratic nation profits from a victorious war.
--Ludwig von Mises
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Helena Handbasket:
--- Quote ---On 2005-10-02 10:39:00, Three Springs Waygookin wrote:
"Forget it all you want that is your problem not mine, or really what your saying is you looked and you just can't pick up on the obvious?
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Why don't you just say what's so obvious - because I missed it too. I have to agree - when I hear words like "structure" "self esteem" and "wholesome", I tend to cringe.
It's kinda like walking onto a used car lot, and you already know what's going to spew out of the face of the balding, badly dressed salesman walking your direction. You brace yourself, as he shakes your hand, and lo and behold - here it comes... the windup, the pitch, and ZING - yep - it's everything you've already heard.
Are you saying you wouldn't pre-emptively strike down bullshit? Or do you just let it play out?
But we're not talking about cars here, we're talking about kids. Living, breathing souls that are going to have to live with the crap their parents fall for.
What's obvious to me is that this woman is trying to wrap buzzwords around her kid, and the fact is that there are places out there that will not question the parent's motives. If you're such a professional, why don't you question more?
Helena Handbasket:
--- Quote ---On 2005-10-02 11:18:00, Three Springs Waygookin wrote:
"Becareful they wee little people might be watching you!...
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Ok, so you're picking on presumptions of those who are also opposed to TBSs. So what's your opinion of the OP, other than that she needs a remedial English class?
Nihilanthic:
--- Quote ---On 2005-10-02 11:18:00, Three Springs Waygookin wrote:
"Becareful they wee little people might be watching you!
First of all my arguement to date has had absolutely nothing to do with her decision to search for a structured boarding school for her child. No where have I said I think we need to start locking up kids for no apparent reason. I have certainly not started some crusade to enlighten the chipmunks of the forest on the benifits of programs everywhere. What I have contended with this whole time is your vague meanderings.
Your vagueness has everything to do with the fact that your asserting the poster is a troll based on terminology. No where have I brought in my opinions on her decision to seek out a structured boarding school for her child. If anything I have refrained from putting forward my opinion on that matter in the absence of information.
To date thus far in the contention of this issue I had made no comments into my opinion regarding the nature of the child's exact needs. This relates back to the issue of not knowing the exact details of the family's situation. For the majority of this issue I have questioned your wild speculations based on absolutely nothing.
My past record here for the most part has to encourage people to avoid sending their children to TBS style settings. I have used the insight I gained through my employment in the industry to make suggestions for those people who have asked. This has happened on numerous occasions, and on a couple of occasions its been suggested I make contact with parents over on Struggling Teens to provide information, and I have done just that.
My point that I have made again, and again in a very clear manner is that you have no idea what the story is about this woman, and her child, but yet your attempting to argue a position that you have no knowledge of. Even more amusing is now your starting to make assertions that somehow I am a predisposed to favoring programs. Perhaps holding onto reality just a little bit tighter is a thought to consider.
Try not to wander off the point to much next time.
The great enemy of truth is very often not the lie-deliberate, contrived, and dishonest-but the myth-persistent, persuasive, and unrealistic.
--John F. Kennedy, U.S. President
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"
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So, HOW many words to say you: "think Im a jackass for assuming shes not a legitimate parent"?
Thanks. Really, this was much more personally growthful than if we had avoided the M.A.D. flamewar.
I still think that the way she spoke was VERY, VERY fishy, and out of the norm. It did not strike me as a 'scared' parent, or a concerned one, just the bright-eyed (from all the glaze) tone of a parent wanting the McTherapy Deluxe combo (to go) for her kid.
If you disagree, thats fine, but its not like there isnt a long standing record of programmie parents here and abroad (struggling teens?) acting like buffoons, or people who are already drunk off of 'the punch' who talk that way.
I still must insist - WHO THE FUCK TALKS THAT WAY Except for... programmies, salespeople, trolls, or people who have been in a program? I really dont want to be an ass about this, but come the hell on TSW. I have a point. The tone and vocabulary was way out of left field for the non-program norm and exactly what Id expect FROM a programmite.
History does not record anywhere or at any time a religion that has any rational basis. Religion is a crutch for people not strong enough to stand up to the unkonwn without help. But, like dandruff, most people do have a religion and spend time and money on it and seem to derive considerable pleasure from fiddling with it.
--Robert A. Heinlen, American science-ficiton author
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