Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform > Brat Camp
Redcliffer
Anonymous:
We shall see...only time will tell.
For us, for now - Redcliff was the best thing that ever happened to my son -- just ask him -- he'll tell you.
He said he thought that everyone should go there and that it was a great experience.
He was "hard core" because he said he liked it --he liked to hike, he liked the structure, he liked the peer group -- He even liked the food --I am serious he never complained about anything. He was never "broken down" by anyone or anything -- he looked at this as an opportunity to get clean and look at his stuff.
Maybe that is the difference -- maybe wilderness has its place for a certain type of kid and a certain set of circumstances.
There is no doubt that the majority of these kids come from privledged backgrounds and have most likely been given way too much by busy parents who don't take the time to parent thier kids until it is too late.
I'll give you that! But for us it was a way to break the cycle of drugs and violence and let him earn his way in a safe place.
No matter how hard the wilderness is it is still far better than the streets. My son said that he was able to be himself -- he didn't need to worry about being a tough guy to avoid getting beat up.
Another thing my son said was -- he felt as if he had accomplished somthing all on his own for the first time in his life -- you see Mommy (me) was always rescuing him and making things OK for him and seeing to it that he never had to take responsibility for his actions.
At Redcliff he was made to feel proud of himself. He was made to feel capable and worthy of trust and respect... He became a leader in a positive sense.
Maybe wilderness is being too broadly applied to kids for which this experience turns out to be very bad thing.
I am not stupid or brainwashed as you might suggest. I am not part of the teen industry either.
I am just a Mom who loves her son and is so proud of him and what he has accomplished.
You will never understand nor do I expect you too. You hold your beliefs as tightly as I do mine and that is what makes places like this great.
We can be free to disagree without getting nasty with each other -- people who read this can get both sides and come away with far more information than if we all just agreed with one another.
Redcliff Fan
Anonymous:
--- Quote ---On 2005-12-20 15:43:00, Anonymous wrote:
But for us it was a way to break the cycle of drugs and violence and let him earn his way in a safe place.
No matter how hard the wilderness is it is still far better than the streets.
--- End quote ---
No, not really.
http://orange-papers.org/orange-gulags.html
Tony Haynes, Michelle Sutton, Aaron Bacon, Dawnne Takeuchi, Nicholaus Contreraz, Gina Score, Michael Wiltsie, William "Eddie" Lee....the list goes on and on....See FICA
http://www.ficausa.com/deaths.html
AtomicAnt:
--- Quote ---On 2005-12-20 15:43:00, Anonymous wrote:
"We shall see...only time will tell.
For us, for now - Redcliff was the best thing that ever happened to my son -- just ask him -- he'll tell you.
He said he thought that everyone should go there and that it was a great experience.
He was "hard core" because he said he liked it --he liked to hike, he liked the structure, he liked the peer group -- He even liked the food --I am serious he never complained about anything. He was never "broken down" by anyone or anything -- he looked at this as an opportunity to get clean and look at his stuff.
Maybe that is the difference -- maybe wilderness has its place for a certain type of kid and a certain set of circumstances.
There is no doubt that the majority of these kids come from privledged backgrounds and have most likely been given way too much by busy parents who don't take the time to parent thier kids until it is too late.
I'll give you that! But for us it was a way to break the cycle of drugs and violence and let him earn his way in a safe place.
No matter how hard the wilderness is it is still far better than the streets. My son said that he was able to be himself -- he didn't need to worry about being a tough guy to avoid getting beat up.
Another thing my son said was -- he felt as if he had accomplished somthing all on his own for the first time in his life -- you see Mommy (me) was always rescuing him and making things OK for him and seeing to it that he never had to take responsibility for his actions.
At Redcliff he was made to feel proud of himself. He was made to feel capable and worthy of trust and respect... He became a leader in a positive sense.
Maybe wilderness is being too broadly applied to kids for which this experience turns out to be very bad thing.
I am not stupid or brainwashed as you might suggest. I am not part of the teen industry either.
I am just a Mom who loves her son and is so proud of him and what he has accomplished.
You will never understand nor do I expect you too. You hold your beliefs as tightly as I do mine and that is what makes places like this great.
We can be free to disagree without getting nasty with each other -- people who read this can get both sides and come away with far more information than if we all just agreed with one another.
Redcliff Fan
"
--- End quote ---
I have on my hard drive a clip from a program aired on 60 minutes and reported by Mike Wallace. Two kids report to Mike that the program uses painful arm and wrist twisting to force reluctant teens to hike. A therapist takes a kid to a place where he believes he is out of earshot, the crew has a directional microphone and picks up the talking. The kid asks his therapist why counselors are hurting him to force him to hike. The therapist responds with, "Why do you think I want you to be hurt?"
The other boy is a slightly built 13 year old that has been in the wilderness for over 80 days and when Mike asks him why so long, he responds that it is because he is 'hard core' and likes to do things the 'hard way.' Sound familiar? He sounds like he is parroting counselors to me. Mike Wallace points out that this slightly built youngster is subjected to same length hikes with the same gear as all the other students including much bigger, stronger, older boys.
In another part of the expose, they show a reluctant boy about to be strip searched. If you cannot empathize with the look of fear, confusion, and helplessness in this boy's mannerisms and expressions, you simply have no feelings. It is clear he does not want this and clear he realizes he will come out the loser if he protests in any way. The program explains how all the teens are stripped searched and all their belongings taken from them. Since many of these kids arrived by escort who abducted them in the middle of the night, there is no realistic chance they have contraband. This strip search is solely to humiliate the teen and show the teen clearly who is in charge. They use the kids' confiscated clothes as a scent item for the search dogs in case a kid runs away.
A staff member shows Mike a collection of objects that kids have used to assault counselors. He states these serve as reminders to be alert. He shows Mike the map where each kid is located with their group. The markers representing the kids are color and shape coded to show those who are potentially violent or potential suicide risks. Nice safe place, this. This same staff member tells a story of a teen assaulting him with a piece of wood. The teen goes to court and the judge orders the teen to finish the program. Nice. They sent a demonstrably violent person to be with your son.
You say your son liked the structure? I despise the term 'structure' in the context of these camps. When a parent, like me, thinks of structure, we think of the basic routines by which a household runs. We understand that routine, certainty, and consistency make kids feel safe. When these camps use the word 'structure' they are referring to a system of harshly enforced rules concerning petty matters like the morning routine which is timed. In fact, I see these programs using loaded language to reassure parents and soften the description of what they really do. They never explicitly say, "We force the kids to hike. We scream in their faces during confrontational therapy. We force them to disclose personal secrets."
-------
Wilderness therapy can be a good thing. I went to a wilderness program at age 15. I did not realize I was forced into it. I thought I was a volunteer. It was like the one you describe above. It did not have ridiculous rules or confrontational therapy. It was more like an Outward Bound type of program. It pushed my limits and I discovered I could do things I would have otherwise thought impossible. I never thought to rebel against it because I believed I was volunteer.
Funny thing. I am in my forties now and over Thanksgiving I hooked up with some old high school friends. The Wilderness program came up in conversation and one friend said, "We always wondered why you were sent. It seemed like they were sending the trouble makers and you were an honor student on the track team." I told him I volunteered. Another friend interrupted and said, "Actually, we were told not to let you out of the room until you agreed to go. We were glad you liked it, because we were worried if you didn't, you'd come back and kick our asses." Now that I recall that intervention, I remember how they really wanted me to sign the paper then and there. When I told them I would need to ask my parents first, a teacher said, "We will take care of that." At the time, this made sense because my Dad was a teacher at the same high school. I just thought this teacher would see him during the day before I would that night. Now I wonder what role my Dad played in all this. I never asked him.
Troll Control:
Again, well put. These places are dangerous and, let's remember, there's no such thing as "wilderness therapy," only wilderness trips. There is NO THERAPEUTIC VALUE to being in the wilderness. Therapeutic value comes from THERAPY, not hiking.
Saying "Wilderness Therapy" is like saying "Prison Therapy." Neither is an actual form of therapy, but have surprisingly similar "success rates" (75% recidivism). Sending your kid to wilderness is no more therapeutic than sending him to jail.
Anonymous:
Saying "Wilderness Therapy" is like saying "Prison Therapy." Neither is an actual form of therapy, but have surprisingly similar "success rates" (75% recidivism). Sending your kid to wilderness is no more therapeutic than sending him to jail.
Brilliant!!
Deborah
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