Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform > Brat Camp
Redcliffer
Anonymous:
Jail, prison therapy, whatever.... All I know is that my son came back a far better person for the experience.
I am sure there are bad programs out there and kids that should have never been put there...
You for example -- why in the world would your parents send you to a wilderness program when you were obviously functioning so well in many area's of your life... that does sound crazy! :???:
Kind of like killing a fly with a sledgehammer.
Some of the stories on the board sound absolutely absurd! First time offenses of shoplifting or kids that backtalk their parents and they get sent to wilderness therapy - that is just wrong.
I think there are very few of us out there that were angels when we were teens. I did my share of drugs, drank and engaged in some pretty risky behavior -- but I was also able to function well in the other area's of my life - to me that is the difference
I guess I thought that the kids that went there were more like my son.
In fact, the four other boys that graduated with him all had similar backgrounds to his.. one boy had been repeatedly arrested and spent quite a bit of time in jail. All four were heavy drug users and had been expelled from school for arious reason from violence to selling drugs on campus.
I think if I sent my daughter or son there thinking that this was anything other than the last stop for seriously messed up kids before turning them over to the state or the street then I would be shocked.
My son was well forwarned that if he continued doing what he was doing that we would have no choice but to remove him from our home (he was violent and using drugs in our home, expelled from school,dealing drugs and stealing from family members as well as neighbors to support his habit)
When he wrestled me to the ground in a physical stuggle when I tried to take away his pipe -- that was the last straw. I no longer felt safe in my own home.
We offered him outpatient rehab, therapy, alternative school, home school and NA (he went to the meetings high -- also a great place to make more drug connections).
We did everything first -- this was a last resort. I agree with you that it is like prison in many ways.
But with all of that said -- All I know is that my son called me from boarding school this morning all excited to tell me how much he liked it and that they were having a christmas dance with the girls dorms and that one of the girls had made a big deal of asking him to be her date to the dance.
He loves the art program and actually has developed an interest in something other than drugs for the first time in his life.
He is clean and sober and dealing with his stuff on a daily basis.
They spent Sunday watching Football in the Recroom and working out in the weightroom and playing basketball...He can use the phone whenever he wants.
I don't know but that does not sound like gulog to me.
Wilderness was exactly where he needed to be. I also saw the Mike Wallace clip (actually right here on this website)
My son was restrained within 20 minutes of arriving and within the first few weeks threatened a counsler with a tree branch... these were all learning experiences for him...
One of the biggest lessons he learned was that there were people in this world who would not put up with his crap and who he could not intimidate into giving him his own way.
I have to say that my "son" is actually a man -- 6'2" and 190lbs. He was bigger than most of the leaders...
Anyway -- to each his own. I know in my heart that what I did was right for my son. He has thanked me over and over again...
Maybe it was a fluke and if it is then I am grateful for it -
AtomicAnt:
I guess I should not have used the term 'Wilderness Therapy." In the wilderness trip I was in, there was no therapy. There were no therapists. There were no group therapy sessions. It was 30 years ago and so many details escape me. I remember we met as a group at the beginning and we all listed goals we had for the program. A counselor added 'develop leadership skills' to my list. I was pretty shy as a teen. After we went through some exercise or other, we would meet and discuss if it fit our expectations and what, if anything, we got out of it.
During one meeting, we were asked to pick a person in the group and say something we liked about that person. There was no feedback allowed to these comments.
No confrontational stuff took place at all.
The high point for me was rock climbing and rappelling. I was (and still am) afraid of heights. It took the counselors at least thirty minutes to talk me over the edge. I cried like a baby. One counselor told me, "If you don't do this now, you will always look back at this moment in your life and regret having not done it." Those words rang true and over I went. Rappelling was so much fun, I did it three more times. I was dropping like a special forces soldier by the end of the day and felt like a boy on fire.
I was sorry they could not get that kid Derrick on Brat Camp to do any of that; rappelling, ropes, trust fall. I did them all and it took all my will to do so, but was well worth it.
This past summer, my eight-year-old wanted me to take him on a mountain gondola. I am still afraid of heights, but not wanting to deny him this experience, I went anyway. He had a great time teasing me by saying things like, "Just think Dad, only one cable is holding us up here and if it goes..." I wanted to strangle him. We took tons of pictures and we will both remember it forever.
---------
But, we digress. You mention you saw the video clip (yes, I copied it from this website) and yet you don't object to the way they forced these kids to hike? You don't mind the strip search? You think that your son was restrained is okay?
What if your son, instead of just threatening a counselor with a tree branch, had killed him instead?
It surprises me, reading about this industry, that there are only a few stories of kids killing other kids and no stories of kids killing staff.
Anonymous:
Ugh, I'm very stressed, someone give me a nice sloppy blow job...
Anonymous:
Well -- When we got alone and away from the program I asked him if he was ever physically "forced" to hike.
He said no but that if you "sat" then everyone had to stop and they just waited the person out. The longer they sat the later they got to camp and the person got to see that their actions had a negative effect on everyone.
There were times they were waiting over an hour for someone to get up.
My son actually got in trouble for giving a "sitter" a hard time. He called him a wienee -he got in more trouble for talking to him like that than the kid did for sitting.
My son said that the kids actually looked forward to hiking -- now let me say that my son was not out there in the dead of summer but rather in the late summer and fall when the weather is pretty darn nice. In the winter they wanted to hike to keep warm -- they played games, told stories and jokes and sang songs on the trail.
One of things that was used as a reward when the kids were working well as a group and everyone passed off a phase was something called a three peak. That was when they would hike to three mountain peaks in one week -- it was a big deal for them.
They also didn't just wander around in the desert. They went places, they went to a few lakes, a ghost town and even exploring some caves.
They ensured that the kids drank at least 4 quarts of water (they had to get it passed off every day).
He said that at first it was physically hard for him but soon he built up his endurance and enjoyed the hiking -- also we are talking about a good size boy who is more than capable of carrying around a heavy pack.
They would all hike in for parties called "shin digs" to a base camp where all of the groups would hike in and they would have skits, contests and tons of food...They also had a ropes course there.
I saw it with my own eyes - and actually spent the night there in 8 degree weather eating the same food and sleeping in a similar bag outside without shelter on the ground right next to my son - so did his dad. It was hard but also very beautiful - I had never seen so many stars and really felt the quiet peace of the wilderness.
As far as the tree branch goes -- you have to remember this is the kind of thing my kid was doing at home -- only with a baseball bat -- at least these leaders were able to talk him down and show him that they were not afraid of him and get to the root of his anger which was mostly frustration. I would have been horrified in either case (home or wilderness) if something had happened.
The strip search was necessary to keep everyone safe. They needed to make sure the kids didn't come in with anything the good Lord didn't send them into this world with.
Same thing as Jail -- for the same reasons -- we are not talking about girl scouts here -- or I guess we shouldn't be....
I have always said to my son ....
"If you lay down with dogs - you get up with fleas"
In other words, if you don't want unpleasent things to happen to you then you shouldn't make the choices that get you in those situations in the first place.
The choices he made landed him there -- remember we gave him full forwarning -- even to the point of showing him a brochure -- especially in the days immediately preceeding his departure.
If these kids are in as bad of shape as my son then I'm sure they had been or soon would have been in far more disgusting surroundings than a strip search -- in fact they were laughing about it at graduation.
Honestly that is what baffles me about Redcliff detractors -- my son is not intimidated by anyone and if anything had happened out there that was abusive he would have no trouble telling me about it.
They also gave each one of the kids a survey at the end of the program to get their feedback on every aspect of the program from intake, gear, food, group, leaders etc...
There is no doubt that there are awful programs out there but I don't think Redcliff is one of them -- the industry is ripe for abuse and not well legislated or controlled and parents send kids who don't need to be there...
But for kids like my son -- it was just the ticket.
Thanks for sharing your thoughts -- I know my point of view seems unthinkable to you but then again I hope that you never reach the point with your precious son that I did with mine. Perhaps your insight and experiences as a youth will actually help you achieve that hope.
Take care..
Anonymous:
When he wrestled me to the ground in a physical stuggle when I tried to take away his pipe -- that was the last straw. I no longer felt safe in my own home.>>>
aggression begets aggression.
typically by this age parents realize that strong arm tactics don't work. those who haven't figured out a different strategy resort to hired aggressors.
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