Problem with this forum

[Antigen]

You're right, BK, I did jump right to "well wadaya want me to do about it." Sorry, my bad. Honestly, that's not the thought I started out to convey, but I got carried away.

What I meant to say was 1) expect some hostility (by the time I pecked that out and pulled the turnovers out of the oven several people had said it already.) and 2) harsher than that, I have no sympathy whatever for any parent who wants to take that hostility as an excuse to not participate if you've got something you want to add. This is NOthing, NOTHING! compared to a real live, full on rap on YOU in the round, let alone months or years of them. This is just words on a screen, no spit flying, no pain, no barbed wire fences; you can take it in small doses or not at all. Your call.

Yes, the sales pitch is convincing. And it didn't begin when you first searched Google for pages about "troubled teens". You've been bombarded w/ messages right along the same lines from the day the nurse removed your newborn baby from your arms and informed you that he/she would be taken for tests and stabalization for at least 10 hours (or... long enough to make starting breastfeeding a little trickey) Did you fight it? Did you argue? Did you want to but maybe you were too afraid?

And it goes on from there in like fashion. No wonder parents ta' day are such suckers! It's amazing to reflect on how the art of parenting has been so nearly lost in our society. 150 years ago, we had near total litteracy w/o compulsory government schooling. When the first compulsory schooling laws took effect in Massachusetts, there were riots. People did not easily or trustingly turn their children over to government schoolpeople.

God, it's amazing if you just slow down, take a minute and think about the state of things. We take our doctors' advice (unless we're weird, bookish, bodacious broads) and let them shoot vaccines into them. Anyone who would question or object (as broads mentioned above) are persumed to be paranoid idiots. And when, a couple of years down the road we read about the link between murcury in vaccines and autism, we STILL continue to trust blindly. What ever happened to prescience?

What ever happened to that spirit of independence, ruggedness and autonomy that we get all dewey eyed about on Independence Day and whenever the commander in thief shipps off another raft of young men to someone else's war?

It's a hollow promise. Has been for a long time now. If you kid is not pissed off, they haven't been paying attention.

Climb the mountains and get their good tidings. Nature's peace will flow into you as sunshine flows into trees. The winds will blow their own freshness into you, and the storms their energy, while cares will drop off like autumn leaves. When we try to pick out anything by itself, we find it hitched to everything else in the Universe.  -- My First Summer in the Sierra , 1911, page 110.
Anonymity Anonymous
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[Nihilanthic]

People just do as told, accept what is told, dont think, are milquetoast to be totally honest, and generally just seem not totally there. Like theyre stuck living in their little consumerist utopia leaving all the decisions to other people while they do their jobs, get their money, and then spend it.

When shit happens, nobody cares because nobody WANTS to care. They just want their income and spending money.

Until EVERYONE gets screwed over (and loses that) there wont be much done to change the way things are.

Society in every state is a blessing, but Government, even in its best state, is but a necessary evil; in its worst state, an intolerable one.
--Thomas Paine

[GregFL]

On 2005-06-18 11:50:00, Anonymous wrote:

"

On 2005-06-18 10:08:00, GregFL wrote:


"But imagine for a moment you are 20 years old and trying to get over the worse 3 years of your life. You were sent away to "drug rehab" and abused, locked up, tortured. You have seen the articles on Costa Rica. You know the place was always controversial...





Then some parent comes along and says the only reason they sent their kid away to this hell hole was because they thought it was a wonderfull school and that there kid was sent there for being "lazy".  I can understand how they would just immediately think..."what a stupid shit" and lash out. I mean, dear parent, what the fuck? How much research did you do?  It isn't true that the costa rica facility existed in a vacuum. Controversy surrounded the place...





You are asking for understanding of what you did. I think a little reciprocation to the people who react unfavorable is in order.





"

I was the kid who went there. There was no controversy at the time i was there.  Being one of the orignal 10 students, I have seen the facility grow from a delapitated old dude ranch to a high security prison in the center of the jungle.  The program was non-existant for the most part at that time.  As more and more kids came in, rules came in place, staff members were brought in.  In the first three months, we built the "school" as the program was placed around us. As time went on, the facility was converted to a full fledged WWWASP community.  So please do not dictate to us our situation and the situation I was in.  You were not there, so therfor have absolutly no FIRST HAND knowledge of this place and the events that occured there.  For future referance, keep your bashing to things that you are correctly and well informed about."

First, I am sorry you were sent there. I love Costa Rica,and I would hate for that to be my memory of a very special place.

second, you have missplaced anger towards me. I did not bash anyone only asked what I assume was one of your parents to try to understand some of where the hostility might be coming from.

It was a mistake for your parents to send you there, irrespective of the history of the place. It was run by A synanon derivite program which has proven to be harmfull to children.

If you parents admit the mistake, you have it over many other kids..witness the thread above about the girl and her mom. Hell, I went thirty years before I got an apology, and then my father stopped having much to do with me, still proclaiming he did the right thing to other family members.

You are not that much different than me anon, our experiences are only seperated by time.

[Antigen]

Yeah, you're not wrong. But nobody sets out and aspires to blandness. We're told that we have to do the school thing if we hope for success. Look around you. None of the great luminaries of our time or any other did particularly well in school, though many were absolute freaks for education.

Here are a couple of lists:
http://www.education-reform.net/dropouts.htm
http://www.education-reform.net/dropouts2.htm

One of the most heartbreaking aspects of the troubled parent industry is that one of it's primary purposes seems to be to finish off those kids who resist the breaking process. Bells, detentions, having to announce to the whole classroom when you need to pee, letter grades, cliquing and bullying... if all that doesn't break em and they still have enough autonomy and spunk by the time they're 15 to resist, well now, we've got JUST the place for them!

It makes me sad.

When a religion is good, I conceive it will support itself; and when it does not support itself, and God does not take care to support it so that its professors are obliged to call for help of the civil power, 'tis a sign, I apprehend, of its being a bad one.
--Benjamin Franklin, American Founding Father, author, and inventor

_________________
Ginger Warbis ~ Antigen
Drug war POW
Seed `71 - `80
Straight, Sarasota
   10/80 - 10/82
Anonymity Anonymous
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[Antigen]

God, but my spelling sux!!

You need only reflect that one of the best ways to get yourself a reputation as a dangerous citizen these days is to go about repeating the very phrases which our founding fathers used in the struggle for independence.

--Charles Austin Beard

[Anonymous]

]



I was the kid who went there. There was no controversy at the time i was there.... For future referance, keep your bashing to things that you are correctly and well informed about."

You are wrong here...all these programs have been immersed, in fact swimming in controversy for the last 30 years. Goto my forum, the seed discussion forum,and you will see a very interesting article I just posted from 1974 accusing the place I was in of using  brainwashing methods on the kids.

The state department of our government has been  warning parents against sending their kids to these camps in foreign lands. Many years ago, television shows such as 60 minutes and 20/20 ran series on these foreign Behavior modifications schools.

Even in the absence of all outside criticism, sending your kid away to a foreign land for corrective measures just reeks of a dangerous rotten decision.

Like I said, your parents seem to have come to some understanding that what they did was wrong and that makes you a lucky kid. I also said your parents were brave for telling their story here. I believe that..it takes integrity to admit when you are wrong.

"In almost every region of the world, there are facilities for the treatment of minor children with drug/alcohol and/or discipline problems. These private and state-owned overseas treatment centers can often be characterized as "Behavior Modification Facilities." Parents/guardians enroll their minor children in these facilities in the hope they will improve their problematic behavior.

Some facilities request parents/guardians to sign a contract for their minor child''s treatment authorizing its staff to act as their agents. These contracts purport to give staff very broad authority to take any actions deemed necessary, in the staff''s judgment, for the health, welfare and progress in the child''s program. The facilities can be located in relatively remote areas, restrict the minor child''s contact with the outside world, and employ a system of graduated levels of earned privileges and punishments to stimulate behavior change. The minor child''s communication privileges may also be limited.

The Department of State has no authority to regulate these entities, whether they are private or state-owned, and does not maintain information about their corporate or legal structures or their relationships to each other or to organizations in the United States. The host country where the facility is located is solely responsible for compliance with any local safety, health, sanitation, and educational laws and regulations, including all licensing requirements of the staff in that country. These standards may not be strictly enforced or meet the standards of similar facilities in the United States. The Department of State has, at various times, received complaints about nutrition, housing, education, health issues, and methods of punishment used at some facilities.

Prior to enrolling their minor children in such overseas "Behavior Modification Facilities," the Department of State strongly recommends parents/guardians visit the facility and thoroughly inform themselves about both the facility and the host country''s rules governing it and its employees"

If this isn't a red flag, I don't know what is. When the The state dept "strongly" recommends anything,something is amiss.

http://travel.state.gov/travel/tips/bro ... _1220.html




gregfl

[Watchaduen]

"This is an important topic about WWASP being called "boarding schools". I am one of those parents. I was looking for a boarding school to offer my teen a way to get out of his laziness, be in a more progressive educational situation, experience another country and it's culture. It's not a sin to think you are offering your child an opportunity. He was a teen that was not in trouble>>>

I am also one of those parents that sent her child off for "help".  But, I didn't do my real good homework until my son was already at Eagle Point Christian Academy, Lucedale, MS.  It is owned and operated by the Fountain family.  I began searching the internet and found nothing but horror stories surrounding that place.  That was all it took for me to know that we weren't taking any chances and rescued my son 3 1/2 days later.

Today, the internet is full of stories surrounding each place.  Victims pouring their hearts out in hopes of saving even one child.  But here come the ignorant parents "well, it has changed, they don't abuse them anymore".

Believe it or not, but I get e-mails all the time from parents who have still placed their child at this hell hole.  They have done internet searches and read all the victim's testimonies.  Yet, still believe it is a good place for their kid.  Why take a chance?  I just don't understand it.

If a doctor was killing and making his patients sick (which the victims began blasting him on the internet)....would you still be willing to risk your health at that particular doctor's office?  I think that says it all right there.  Of course you wouldn't.

[GregFL]

Ginger and I went to a protest of a modern day incarnation of the program we were in. We told the parents that we were subjected to the very same techniques that their kids were going thru and that it was harmfull, but most of them just got mad at us.


Even still, I believe and heard that protest caused a few kids to be pulled from the program as did a follow up protest I attended.

All we can do is do what we are doing. Talk about it and let the truth find its own way.

[Antigen]

On 2005-06-18 20:58:00, GregFL wrote:

Talk about it and let the truth find its own way.

Dude! http://fornits.com/quotes.php?rno=740  :nworthy:

The government of the United States is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion.
--John Adams, U.S. President

[Antigen]

Even in the absence of all outside criticism, sending your kid away to a foreign land for corrective measures just reeks of a dangerous rotten decision.

Question for any and all, but especially program parents. Do you know the difference between the reputable, legacy boarding schools and anything established after, say, the 1970's or so? Do you understand that you can't buy w/ money alone passage into those elite circles? What I mean to say is, are you new money ppl who actually thought that a school established in the 80's or 90's and espousing a mix of newage and good old fashioned discipline was the same thing as, say, the Groton School or St. Paul?s? Did you really think you were buying the real thing? So cheap? And w/o qualification?

 

When a religion is good, I conceive it will support itself; and when it does not support itself, and God does not take care to support it so that its professors are obliged to call for help of the civil power, 'tis a sign, I apprehend, of its being a bad one.
--Benjamin Franklin, American Founding Father, author, and inventor

[Antigen]

On 2005-06-18 11:57:00, BuzzKill wrote:

"Heres a quote about the reason for the hostility I found on:



http://www.tbfight.com/



"While you can modify the child's behavior and structure the behavior, for many of these people, by breaking their spirit, you're going to create an incredible sense of anger and resentment."



Psychiatrist Gary Glass "

Oh, reading this again, I have to answer it. A lot of the hostility around here comes from Program proponants. It usually comes masked in condescending, sanctimonious tones. But it's unmistakably there.

The government is much more interested in preserving the purity of its ideology than it is in allowing patients to get effective medicine.
-- Ethan B. Russo, neurologist at Western Montana Clinic

[Antigen]

On 2005-06-18 20:41:00, Watchaduen wrote:

If a doctor was killing and making his patients sick (which the victims began blasting him on the internet)....would you still be willing to risk your health at that particular doctor's office? I think that says it all right there. Of course you wouldn't.

Actually, it happens all the time. Unless and until you or a close friend gets critically ill, you just assume that the local hospital, though maybe not state of the art, is at least up to some sort of standard.

The reality is more like this:
You have a seering pain or other frightening symptoms that compel you to exceed all speed limits and disregard all but the most important traffic control devices on the way to the nearest hospital.

It's not enough that the ER staff keep you waiting through the wee hours, well into the new day before they decide it's actually a serious matter, not just the flue or a jonesin' junkie. You stay on for weeks of obvious neglect and idiocy, thinking these people who rescued you must know best. Takes someone slapping you upside the head w/ a 2x4, practically, to jolt you from the hero worship and direct you to utter the term "second opinion".

But then, all this lunacy of mine was based on the rediculous notion that Big Brother was watching over the local hospital. Nothing could be further from the truth! Big Brother doesn't exist. But Guido does!

You never see animals going through the absurd and often horrible fooleries of magic and religion. Only man behaves with such gratuitous folly. It is the price he has to pay for being intelligent but not, as yet, intelligent enough.
--Aldous Huxley, author

[GregFL]

On 2005-06-18 20:41:00, Watchaduen wrote:

" It's not a sin to think you are offering your child an opportunity. He was a teen that was not in trouble"

No its not a sin.

It is a mistake..and a very big one. Once this mistake has been made, you cannot take it back. Those experiences become part of who your child is and how he views the world. He/she probably now has issues with trust and issues with authority.

What you can do is take responsiblity for your bad decision,  atone to your child and work to spreak the truth about these places in hopes of preventing exposure of these mind numbing life altering experiences to other unsuspecting families and kids.

Part of making it right with your children is to get on their side totally.  No more the world against them, but instead you and them against the world..the bad part of it anyway. Let them know how your were duped and why it was YOUR mistake to let them con you and just how bad you feel about it and how come hell or high water, it will NEVER HAPPEN AGAIN.

If you are here, perhaps you are already doing that.

I commend you for your efforts, and I mean that in the plural...all you parents that are trying to set it right. It is the only right thing to do.

[GregFL]

ps...Cheryl...your signature says it all.  Thanks so much for telling your story.

[Anonymous]

admin@tbfight.com here... about the money issue being the sole reason wwasps exist:
I think money has 99 percent of the stake in this thing... There are issues that surround wwasp and rehabilitation centers in general that do not have anything to do with money, yeah, but all I see is wwasp trying to make a buck...

The seminars do bother me though... I have a hard time reconciling the fact that wwasps would use the type of seminars they do, just to keep parents and kids quiet until they are long gone... These seminars can have long lasting effects, and do seem to lead the participant away from questioning what other people are doing and into a form of self abuse... I always assumed that this was just to keep everyone quiet until years later... But it does seem as if there is some societal influence being applied...
I dare not venture farther than what I just insinuated :smile:, but I do think it is something to look into...