More bullshit advice from ST

[Anonymous]

Zen...   You ask "If you know of a therapeutic and non-abusive facility, why don't you share this information and perhaps help some kids".  Yet, you know full well that this is hardly a forum where such help would be sought, much less accepted.  The reason might well be disclosed by "We'll practice the same kind of confrontational approach program counselors use on kids."  You may think that fair and accurate, yet it is neither because while some programs and counselors are highly confrontational, even to the point of being abusive, others are actually rather gentle, if unyielding on matters of truth, when they confront a student in theri care who has demonstrably lied(eg).  

Surely you wouldn't condone lying, would you?  How would you propose adddressing such behavior without confronting the liar?

[Anonymous]

But there are people here who have been civil and not gone after you with both barrels.  Ignore those that aren't and engage in discussion with those that are.  Why is this such a difficult thing for you?


Let's talk about the gentle programs you speak of.  If they really are then they'll be able to stand up to the scrutiny, right?

[Anonymous]

Am I missing something here?  Curious Outsider asked some questions.  Why the sarcasm in response?




curious outsider
Junior Member
Member # 5222

I am glad your daughters programme helped the whole family. What specifically did you take away from the intensive weekends?
What is inaccurate about that statement?
Is it that you feel that kids take drugs to the level of excess that they need to be removed from their family for no reason at all, or that a parents divorce does not have an effect on a kid? Or that when a youngster has "entitlement" issues the adults in their life have not contributed to this?

Given that parents have often described this as an extremely painful decision for them to make then it is reasonable to ask what it is that they will get out of it in terms their relationship to their kid. I would want to know what a programme can offer the wider family in terms of being able to get a child on track.




[ October 12, 2006, 05:20 PM: Message edited by: curious outsider ] Posts: 6 | From: australia | Registered: Jun 2006  |  Logged: 124.177.241.118 | Report this post to a Moderator
WillieNelson
Member
Member # 5254

A program works on the communication between the teen and the parents/siblings. During family visits there is structured time to address issues and share viewpoints in a safe manner with the help of a therapist. When teens are sent to a program, usually communication has totally broken down, the teen hates the parents will not observe even basic household rules. It is seldom as simple as "kids take drugs to th elevel of excess that they need to be removed from their family for now reason at all...." as you say. It is more often the teen is using drugs or engaging in behavior such as not attending school, breaking the law, stealing, being violent to siblings, stealing from the family and friends' parents in order to support the drug habit, maybe selling drugs.... The parents can not trust the teen to be in the house alone, car keys have to be hidden, purses have to be hidden, younger siblings are terrified and traumatized by the family dynamics, etc. Yes, in many cases the parents have contributed to entitlement issues. This is something the parents work on through therapy while the teen is away- both with the school therapists and in private therapy. Just because the parents made parenting mistakes does not change the fact that the teen can not remain in the household. Do you suggest that the parents leave and go to a program and leave the teen in charge?

[AtomicAnt]

[ October 12, 2006, 05:20 PM: Message edited by: curious outsider ] Posts: 6 | From: australia | Registered: Jun 2006 | Logged: 124.177.241.118 | Report this post to a Moderator
WillieNelson
Member
Member # 5254

A program works on the communication between the teen and the parents/siblings. During family visits there is structured time to address issues and share viewpoints in a safe manner with the help of a therapist. When teens are sent to a program, usually communication has totally broken down, the teen hates the parents will not observe even basic household rules. It is seldom as simple as "kids take drugs to th elevel of excess that they need to be removed from their family for now reason at all...." as you say. It is more often the teen is using drugs or engaging in behavior such as not attending school, breaking the law, stealing, being violent to siblings, stealing from the family and friends' parents in order to support the drug habit, maybe selling drugs.... The parents can not trust the teen to be in the house alone, car keys have to be hidden, purses have to be hidden, younger siblings are terrified and traumatized by the family dynamics, etc. Yes, in many cases the parents have contributed to entitlement issues. This is something the parents work on through therapy while the teen is away- both with the school therapists and in private therapy. Just because the parents made parenting mistakes does not change the fact that the teen can not remain in the household. Do you suggest that the parents leave and go to a program and leave the teen in charge?

Once again, the "last resort" arguement. When I peruse the websites of programs, I have yet to find the program that advertises they are strictly a last resort for a teen that poses an immediate danger to themselves or others.

On the contrary, I find the opposite. These programs advertise they can assist with everything from ADHD to low self esteem, poor grades, and lack of motivation. They also specifically state they cannot handle violent or uncontrollable teens.

I sincerely doubt the majority of the teens in these programs fit this poster's description and that most teens that are being incarcerated have committed far lesser offenses.

The "last resort" argument is the argument last resorted to when all else fails to justify why anyone should place a child incommunicado with the outside world.

[Troll Control]

Plus that fuck-stick Willie sets up a stawman yet again.  This fucking nitwit wouldn't know a debate if it hit him in the head.  He's like a one-legged man in an ass-kicking contest and as absolutely stupid as they come.

"So you're suggesting we leave the teen home and send the parents away?"  Willie, you're a fucking half-wit retard setting up strawmen to knock down because your tiny little brain can't even keep up with a "troubled teen" in a level debate.  No wonder you had to send your kid away - they're smarter than you, so to avoid the inevitable battle-of-wits your kid was likely to bring on, you shipped them off.  Nice, Willie, you pea-brained little faggot.

[Deborah]

The "last resort for juvenile delinquents" is frequently used by parents and programs to justify placement and the outrageous fees programs charge for warehousing. Hey, they're providing an option for keeping the kid out of JJ. The description depends on which argument is being made.

As for the type of kids they take. Many, like HLA (NATSAPs Flagship program), claim not to take seriously distressed kids and no court ordered kids. Not the case. So, Willie's description does apply to some.
http://wwf.fornits.com/viewtopic.php?t=17946
http://wwf.fornits.com/viewtopic.php?t= ... ht=ordered
http://wwf.fornits.com/viewtopic.php?p= ... ole#212520

Programs aren't going to advertise this because it will scare away parents who warehouse their kids for bad grades and talking back.

[Anonymous]

I just found this forum and read through a number of the threads. I have to say that I have never seen such a collection of garbage in all my years of internet research.  The regular posters who log in appear to have an agenda and distort everyone else's remarks to promote that agenda.  The babbling of the likes of Julie, the complete rage of other posters and the self-righteousness of almost all the logged in posters is astounding.
Deborah, I am going to suggest that you get a grip on reality. Parents do not warehouse kids. Kids act themselves right into where they wind up.  Not sure what is so complicated about this point.
i feel very sorry for those of you who seem to waste incredible amounts of time here.  I, for one, saw all I need and found nothing credible.

[Anonymous]

I just found this forum and read through a number of the threads. I have to say that I have never seen such a collection of garbage in all my years of internet research.  The regular posters who log in appear to have an agenda and distort everyone else's remarks to promote that agenda.  The babbling of the likes of Julie, the complete rage of other posters and the self-righteousness of almost all the logged in posters is astounding.
Deborah, I am going to suggest that you get a grip on reality. Parents do not warehouse kids. Kids act themselves right into where they wind up.  Not sure what is so complicated about this point.
i feel very sorry for those of you who seem to waste incredible amounts of time here.  I, for one, saw all I need and found nothing credible.

[Anonymous]

Parents do not warehouse kids. Kids act themselves right into where they wind up.  Not sure what is so complicated about this point.

Damn straight! Those little bastards were just asking for it. By their actions, they practically begged to be escorted by thugs to some shitpit where they could be restrained or rot in isolation for the rest of their teen years. Those little fuckers should never have been born, right?

Nothing complicated about it at all. If you tried abuse and neglect at home and that didn't do the job, it's time to spend $5,000 to over $10,000/month to let someone else kick junior's sorry little ass! At least you have the peace of mind of knowing you won't be arrested for child abuse.

[Anonymous]

I just found this forum .

 :rofl:  :rofl:  :rofl:


Anyone here born yesterday???

[Troll Control]

I just found this forum and read through a number of the threads. I have to say that I have never seen such a collection of garbage in all my years of internet research.  The regular posters who log in appear to have an agenda and distort everyone else's remarks to promote that agenda.  The babbling of the likes of Julie, the complete rage of other posters and the self-righteousness of almost all the logged in posters is astounding.
Deborah, I am going to suggest that you get a grip on reality. Parents do not warehouse kids. Kids act themselves right into where they wind up.  Not sure what is so complicated about this point.
i feel very sorry for those of you who seem to waste incredible amounts of time here.  I, for one, saw all I need and found nothing credible.

You found "nothing credible"?  That statement, in and of itself, is not credible.  This site is absolutley chock-full of links to newspaper articles, studies, websites and other information.  If you find those reputable, mainstream sources to be "not credible," then it is you who has an agenda.  These links are bias-neutral, but I guess you're not.

As for parents not "warehousing children," well, that's absolutely false.  I worked at a few of these programs and I have heard on dozens of occasions "I just wanted him/her out, but I can't kick him/her into the street because until he/she's 18, I'm liable for his/her behavior."  

This is the unfortunate reality of a large segment of the populations of these places.  If you haven't seen this, you've never been exposed to the industry, or as you put it, you have no "grip on reality."

[Anonymous]

goldenguru
Member
Member # 4289

Sorry hb~
I know how difficult it is to "let them go" and to watch them walk out that door. Hopefully your son will quickly realize that life at home isn't so bad. You may find that this time 'on his own' proves more productive than harmful. That has been our experience.

I was talking to my daughter about this thread ... read her my response. She made such an insightful comment that I would like to share it with you. She reminded me that when we pulled her out of bed almost two and a half years ago and flew her across the country - that it was OUR decision to make her stop using, cutting, running away, etc. That WE desired for her to "get better". But, when she came home (16 months later ... drug free, etc.) she subconsciously decided to "pick up where she left off". Yes she left home, used drugs, cut, etc. It was at THAT time that she decided for HERSELF that SHE no longer wanted to live that way. In psychobabble terms she had made an internal choice regarding her behaviors (rather than having externals forced upon her). That made so much sense to me. She owned her own decisions and her own recovery. She owned her own life. It was a epiphany moment for me and I understood at a much deeper level why she made some of the post program choices that she made.

I hope that helps. Your son has the tools. He knows how the game is played. He now has to decide on his own what life is going to look like.

Hang in there. Jane is right. You'll be OK.

--------------------
Kelly

[Nihilanthic]

I just found this forum and read through a number of the threads. I have to say that I have never seen such a collection of garbage in all my years of internet research.  The regular posters who log in appear to have an agenda and distort everyone else's remarks to promote that agenda.  The babbling of the likes of Julie, the complete rage of other posters and the self-righteousness of almost all the logged in posters is astounding.
Deborah, I am going to suggest that you get a grip on reality. Parents do not warehouse kids. Kids act themselves right into where they wind up.  Not sure what is so complicated about this point.
i feel very sorry for those of you who seem to waste incredible amounts of time here.  I, for one, saw all I need and found nothing credible.

Funny, instead of face the facts they bring up and debunk them (like these 'raging' people do with the assertions made by the other side...) you simply attack them and resort to schoolyard name-calling and ad-hominem attacks by any other name, and imply they're insane or 'raging'.

But the thing is, even if they are what you call them, the facts are the facts, be they spoke by a madman, a genius, a saint, or an atheist... so why not try to debunk the facts instead of playing shoot the messenger?

[Deborah]

I refuse to "grip" your reality.
A kid's misbehavior (manifestation of distress) is an indicator that something is amiss in their lives. That's not "acting".
Isolating them from the world is not a solution.
The only "acting" being done is actually learned in the program, in order to escape the horrors of living in a controlled bubble 24/7, where your every thought and action is analyzed and consequenced.
Then they make their reentry to the "real world" where they will learn (or not) to deal with the issues underlying the behaviors that got them warehoused to begin with.

What behaviors was your child exhibiting that resulted in him/her being warehoused?

[Anonymous]

Funny, instead of face the facts they bring up and debunk them (like these 'raging' people do with the assertions made by the other side...) you simply attack them and resort to schoolyard name-calling and ad-hominem attacks by any other name, and imply they're insane or 'raging'.

But the thing is, even if they are what you call them, the facts are the facts, be they spoke by a madman, a genius, a saint, or an atheist... so why not try to debunk the facts instead of playing shoot the messenger?

Cuz they know they can't.  Sad really, but very telling.