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Messages - houseguest

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1
The Troubled Teen Industry / Re: A CALO response by Ken Huey
« on: June 23, 2009, 03:50:25 AM »
Thanks for the info. This is a whole world I didn't know existed. I remember Synanon only from the snake-in-the-mailbox incident, which pretty much convinced me they were not a good bunch. I didn't know they were still around, if only as a model for others.

Interesting thing, I just saw a commercial for a new show coming on A&E called "The Cleaner" with Benjamin Bratt. From what I could see, it looks like he plays one of those guys who grabs addicts, takes them away, and forces them through withdrawal. I don't know how they will make him a likable main character.

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The Troubled Teen Industry / Re: A CALO response by Ken Huey
« on: June 22, 2009, 11:27:23 PM »
Guest, I don't know what horrors you have been through that have brought you to the point of this paranoia and suspicion and xenophobia, but it must have been truly awful, and I'm very sorry that you -- or any other person -- had to go through that. You've accused me of being several other people, none of whom I am. I'm also not an attorney -- the closest I come to that is watching Court TV. Actually, though, if I were a juror and you were a prosecutor presenting evidence, I don't think I would be able to convict anyone based on what you've presented. Maybe it's because I'm new here and don't know the territory -- which schools have been documented as bad, and which staff members have actually participated in cruelties or knew about them and allowed them to happen. But there are some big, blank spots in this particular jigsaw puzzle.

So far you've accused Ken Huey of everything up to and including murder -- where does that come from? If I were on this hypothetical jury, I would be trying to connect the dots, and so far most of the dots haven't been revealed to me. Maybe they won't be, since you don't trust me; but then I'll come away from this with a feeling that you are overreacting and looking for a target. I haven't seen anything that tells me that CALO is a bad place with an abusive staff.

I have never been to CALO or to any other residential school, except the one my daughter went to in Vermont. I'm not employed by CALO or any other facility -- I do freelance graphic production art at home. I just have a curiosity about why someone felt the need to cause additional trauma to teens who are there by putting their confidential information online. You have insulted my intelligence, called me names, and generally have been abusive to me. As I said, I have a couple message boards and I understand all too well the suspicion when a stranger shows up (which is why mine are by invitation only). I suspect nothing will convince you that I am who I say I am, so I'm not going to try. I will just do my best to ignore you.

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The Troubled Teen Industry / Re: A CALO response by Ken Huey
« on: June 22, 2009, 06:29:02 PM »
Thank you to Ursus, Guest, and FemanonFatal. I have, in the past, heard rumors about the "escort" services (thinking it was an invention of a television writer's mind), but the experience Fem has described makes my hair stand on end. Simply horrifying, and thank goodness those two places, at least, no longer exist. In the links you gave, there was no mention of either of the CALO people who used to be somewhere else. I'll go back and see if I can find a link to their previous employment. I truly would like to believe that "that was then and this is now," and that CALO uses different techniques (the dogs, for example) and has gone in a different direction, even with those staff members. Isn't it possible that the staff members left there in order to start a place with a new and different methodology?

Guest, please don't worry about me being a spy for the other side. I'm merely a bystander wanting to learn more (and so far my eyes have really been opened, aand I've just scratched the surface). I hope you'll forgive my naive questions and explain things to me -- think of me as a kindergartner who is just learning to read. I haven't jumped in here with plenty of knowledge about these places and this industry. I kind of fell into it, and I have to learn where the fight is, and whether or not it's possible that this particular school, which is new-ish, might have found a different way by people who knew first hand that the old ways are ineffective.

Somewhere, either here or in one of the links to an unrelated site, I read that rather than using the wrist bend technique, a non-touching talking-till-they're-sick-of-listening approach seems to be more effective. Certainly it would behoove schools to give that a good try. It's still unclear to me that CALO is using the restraining techniques in a way that tortures and injures teens, and until I see evidence to the contrary, I'll continue to wonder.

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The Troubled Teen Industry / Re: A CALO response by Ken Huey
« on: June 22, 2009, 04:39:47 AM »
Do you know for certain that CALO has used these teen escort services? Are you assuming, based on the presence of staff members who worked at abusive places, or do you have names and dates when the incidents occurred?

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The Troubled Teen Industry / Re: A CALO response by Ken Huey
« on: June 22, 2009, 04:20:25 AM »
Quote from: "Guest"
Quote from: "Guest"
Quote from: "houseguest"
I own two message boards where people post links, and links lead to other links, and still others. Once I click on a link, I can get lost for an hour or more, going from link to link. ADD again.

 :roflmao:  ::fullofshit::  link? You're as likely to be just pasing through as just passing through "justpassingthru." My 2 cents

What message board? I'd be amazed to this where this got posted, if it did...

I didn't say it was posted on a message board. More often than not, people post links to non-message-board sites. And sorry, my message boards are by invitation only.

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The Troubled Teen Industry / Re: A CALO response by Ken Huey
« on: June 22, 2009, 04:06:51 AM »
Quote from: "Ursus"
Quote from: "houseguest"
Please tell me how you know this "FACT" that students at CALO are abducted and held hostage. Links, please, to reliable sources with irrefutable evidence. Thank you.

Until evidence proves otherwise, I'll assume you are for real ... for the moment. ;)

Although I cannot in actuality speak for Guest, I do believe that by "abduction" she was referring to the euphemistically termed "teen escort services" that are recommended by a lot of these places.

This experience basically entails being woken up in the middle of the night by 2-3 very large burly men equipped with martial arts skills, handcuffs, and God knows what else under their belt ... for the purpose of being transported to some program that the kid does not want to go to. These escorts then transport these kids door-to-door.

It's a bit of a different experience than when done by a family member. I also suspect that these programs may be a mite bit different than your daughter's family farm school. Where did she go?

Reading about the "escort services," I now can see that it's a horrifying method of getting a teen to the school. Do you know for sure that CALO hires these "services"? And yes, you're right, my daughter's delivery to school was quite a bit different. She went to the Putney School in Vermont.

Thank you for your information, and your patience in explaining these things to me.

7
The Troubled Teen Industry / Re: A CALO response by Ken Huey
« on: June 22, 2009, 03:37:29 AM »
Quote from: "Guest"
Quote from: "houseguest"
Quote from: "Guest"
Quote from: "houseguest"
I'm not going to quote the long post with all the links. Just too much scrolling required. But the questions I asked were not answered. The links had nothing to do with CALO. I asked for links that would show that torture exists at CALO. You gave me a lot of links concerning kidnapping, psychological damage, blahblahblah, but oddly, there was no mention of any of this occurring at CALO.

Again I ask: How did your beef with CALO originate? Why are you so stridently determined to attack the school and, ironically, its STUDENTS you claim to be so concerned about. You say I should educate myself about these abductions. Isn't that what I'm trying to do? I am sincerely trying to find out what happens, if students are woken in the night and dragged out of their homes with hoods over their head and shackles on their arms and legs, and transported to CALO. You claim they are abducted, but when asked, you refuse to back that up. So please educate me.

Have you visited this school? Have you seen reliable reports that the students are being held prisoner, which is, as you said "EXTRADINARILY DAMANGING" (by the way, if you use Firefox, you'll have a built-in spell checker, which may give you more credibility as to your own education).

Please show me where I said the school is "fantatic," or even "fantastic." I said I like the idea of the students bonding with dogs. Aside from that, I know nothing about the school. In fact, I think you probably know less than I do, since you can't answer any questions about it. You seemed to have jumped on a bandwagon without knowing where it's going.

I know, when you cannot think soundly enough to respond substantively, you gotta focus on the typos.

Poor, sad, creature... if you weren't  such a moron you would have noticed I ANSWERED your question. To restate myself:
 our "beef" with Change Academy STARTS with the FACT it abducts and holds people prisoner.

That is a SERIOUS issue, and quite enough to generate “beef.”  Dontcha think? Or perhaps I should kidnap and imprison you a couple years to give you some free insight into the issue.

It continues beyond that, of course, but to save myself a lot of linking and explaining things to an idiot that answer is more than sufficient

Curious, since you have no “dog in this fight” how did you come to this corner of the interweb, a forum for survivors of the “troubled teen” abduction, imprisonment, and torture industry, and the folk who earn their keep in that peculiar institution. Feel free to be creative with your unlikely story.

Well, I think there IS a moron in this conversation, but it's not me. You certainly did NOT answer my question. Your "answer": "our "beef" with Change Academy STARTS with the FACT it abducts and holds people prisoner." I asked for links that would show evidence and reliable research connecting CALO with this. It's not a FACT unless you can back it up. It's not a FACT just because you say it's a fact. I could tell you that it's a FACT that the moon is made of green cheese. According to your logic, that would make it true. Who's the moron?

I came to this "corner of the interweb" because I heard that someone was posting personal information about teenagers in a private school, including some of their treatment reports. I wanted to see for myself what kind of person would do such a thing, hurting a child he claims to be trying to protect. Or are those kids just collateral damage in your personal little war that's based on "FACTS" that you can't back up?

Again, how many interviews have been done with CALO students, past or present? Do you have photographs of staff using this bent wrist maneuver, whatever the hell that is? And I ask again, just how are these students "abducted"? I remember a kid who was going to his first day of kindergarten. His mother took him to the school and left him there, and he screamed bloody murder for the three hours until the half-day was over. It seems, if I were to follow your specious logic, that that kindergartner was abducted by an unfeeling parent, and held hostage by a kindergarten teacher.

My younger daughter went to a boarding school because she was doing badly in our local public school which wouldn't acknowledge that she had problems focusing. She and I went together and looked at two boarding schools. One was very preppy and all the kids were wearing clothes that I could tell had designer labels inside. Not the place for my daughter. We went to visit the second school, and it was completely different. My daughter would receive much more individualized education, and would learn responsibility because it was a working farm and all the kids had jobs that rotated. It was very artsy. Everyone had barn duty at some point, which meant getting up at 5 a.m. and milking the cows. Now when I took my daughter up there, she was not happy. She wanted to be back at her old school with her friends. She called me daily for awhile, wanting to come home. So, according to you, I "abducted" her although she actually put herself into the car, I took her to a place where she didn't want to be -- because I knew better than she did that she would be better off there, and I allowed her to be held hostage by some cows. Well, it didn't take long before she loved the school, and has never regretted going there. But the FACT apparently is that she was abducted and held hostage.

Please tell me how you know this "FACT" that students at CALO are abducted and held hostage. Links, please, to reliable sources with irrefutable evidence. Thank you.



Really, you "heard" about this? Anyone else here receive updates about the goings on at every obscure website somewhat tangentially related to one of your personal experiences?

 Sorry, I'm calling bullshit. But your story was indeed creative, as I requested.

As a probable sock puppet and liar, your make believe confusion about what we mean by abduction and imprisonment is TIRESOME

However, on the off chance some  semi-human being reads this thread who simply has NO IDEA that the sort of evil referred to in this thread transpires, or you are a member of a telekinetically connected to the heartbeat of the internet social site, here is what we mean by abduction and imprisonment:

http://www.nospank.net/labi.htm

There are a 1000 other papers, sites, court cases that would provide more collaboration, but this will do, unless “houseguest” wants to imply this is not FACT, as well.

I don't know if you're just stupid or if you have reading comprehension problems. For the last time, I was asking you what those FACTS have to do with CALO. In other words, what evidence do you have that CALO kidnaps and tortures? Please don't bother to repeat the same thing to me over and over, because Ursus has kindly answered the question I was asking.

And I DID just hear about the names and treatment reports being posted here. What, do you think you're hidden away in a tiny corner of the internet where no one will ever find you? I run across all kinds of obscure things on the internet. I own two message boards where people post links, and links lead to other links, and still others. Once I click on a link, I can get lost for an hour or more, going from link to link. ADD again.

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The Troubled Teen Industry / Re: A CALO response by Ken Huey
« on: June 22, 2009, 03:27:44 AM »
Quote from: "bobpeterson1973"
It sounds like you were not fit to handle a problem that could have been taken care of years ago by being proactive.

That's very possibly true. But I didn't know she had ADD until she started high school. She was a very charming child who was able to get through grammar school and junior high on charisma alone. My rule was that there was no TV allowed during the week, but if homework was done after school, she could watch until 6:00. It was a reward, as opposed to the removal of a privilege. I would come home from work and she would be watching TV. I would say, "Oh good, you've finished your homework!" and she would say "uhhhhh. No, I forgot." She lived in the moment. I thought it was a behavior problem and it took awhile before I found out she had ADD (and so do I).

So you're right. If I had been more proactive, maybe I would have been fit to handle her problem. I wish I had, because it ripped my heart out to send her away to school. Since her sister was leaving for college, I was looking forward to having just her for awhile, since she'd never really had me all to herself.

I would like to suggest that you'll have more productive interactions if you try not to be so insulting.

9
The Troubled Teen Industry / Re: A CALO response by Ken Huey
« on: June 22, 2009, 03:14:35 AM »
Quote from: "Ursus"
Quote from: "houseguest"
I've just been trying to figure out how you came to have a beef with this particular school. I don't know much about it, but I very much like the concept of interaction between the students and the dogs. All of these kids have attachment problems, from what I understand. And giving them the responsibilities and care of dogs, who love unconditionally, seems to be a good idea. Children who were adopted after the first year or so, and were adopted from an institutional setting, do tend to have problems that children adopted as newborns don't have.

I agree with you that the usage of dogs as a bonding tool seems like a wonderful idea at first glance. Not just because dogs "love unconditionally," but also as a means for helping kids develop an appreciation for another being's needs, and the emotional rewards that such a give-and-take can foster.

I also agree with your observation regarding attachment issues that some adopted kids can have. "Attachment Therapy," on the other hand, is a whole 'nother ballgame.

Do note that the people that founded and run CALO are not life-long animal professionals or attachment theory specialists. They have built their careers in the "troubled teen industry" by working in some of the more coercive behavior modification facilities around.

In fact, a number of fornits users have already crossed paths with these people due to having attended these facilities, or having once been employed in them, during the tenure of said CALO personnel.

Most leopards do not change their spots.

Thank you for your well-considered and polite answer. And for actually giving me an idea of why many members are skeptical of CALO, based on past experience with some of their staff. Your post makes a lot of sense.

I would like to believe that bringing the dogs into the mix is an attempt to make a transition to a treatment that is more likely to work than other forms of attachment therapy. Maybe I'm a Pollyanna, but I would also like to believe that leopards, under different circumstances, might be able to change their spots, or at least their personalities. I do understand that the staff are not life-long dog trainers. Neither am I, but it's a skill that I've learned (and continue to learn), and I think it's a change for the positive.

Another serious question I have: What recommendations would you make to a parent of a teenager with attachment problems? One who the public school has been unable to help and whose mother can't control him. Is there anyplace where such a teenager can be taken for help that has the approval of the members here?

10
The Troubled Teen Industry / Re: A CALO response by Ken Huey
« on: June 22, 2009, 02:23:51 AM »
Quote from: "Guest"
Quote from: "houseguest"
I'm not going to quote the long post with all the links. Just too much scrolling required. But the questions I asked were not answered. The links had nothing to do with CALO. I asked for links that would show that torture exists at CALO. You gave me a lot of links concerning kidnapping, psychological damage, blahblahblah, but oddly, there was no mention of any of this occurring at CALO.

Again I ask: How did your beef with CALO originate? Why are you so stridently determined to attack the school and, ironically, its STUDENTS you claim to be so concerned about. You say I should educate myself about these abductions. Isn't that what I'm trying to do? I am sincerely trying to find out what happens, if students are woken in the night and dragged out of their homes with hoods over their head and shackles on their arms and legs, and transported to CALO. You claim they are abducted, but when asked, you refuse to back that up. So please educate me.

Have you visited this school? Have you seen reliable reports that the students are being held prisoner, which is, as you said "EXTRADINARILY DAMANGING" (by the way, if you use Firefox, you'll have a built-in spell checker, which may give you more credibility as to your own education).

Please show me where I said the school is "fantatic," or even "fantastic." I said I like the idea of the students bonding with dogs. Aside from that, I know nothing about the school. In fact, I think you probably know less than I do, since you can't answer any questions about it. You seemed to have jumped on a bandwagon without knowing where it's going.

I know, when you cannot think soundly enough to respond substantively, you gotta focus on the typos.

Poor, sad, creature... if you weren't  such a moron you would have noticed I ANSWERED your question. To restate myself:
 our "beef" with Change Academy STARTS with the FACT it abducts and holds people prisoner.

That is a SERIOUS issue, and quite enough to generate “beef.”  Dontcha think? Or perhaps I should kidnap and imprison you a couple years to give you some free insight into the issue.

It continues beyond that, of course, but to save myself a lot of linking and explaining things to an idiot that answer is more than sufficient

Curious, since you have no “dog in this fight” how did you come to this corner of the interweb, a forum for survivors of the “troubled teen” abduction, imprisonment, and torture industry, and the folk who earn their keep in that peculiar institution. Feel free to be creative with your unlikely story.

Well, I think there IS a moron in this conversation, but it's not me. You certainly did NOT answer my question. Your "answer": "our "beef" with Change Academy STARTS with the FACT it abducts and holds people prisoner." I asked for links that would show evidence and reliable research connecting CALO with this. It's not a FACT unless you can back it up. It's not a FACT just because you say it's a fact. I could tell you that it's a FACT that the moon is made of green cheese. According to your logic, that would make it true. Who's the moron?

I came to this "corner of the interweb" because I heard that someone was posting personal information about teenagers in a private school, including some of their treatment reports. I wanted to see for myself what kind of person would do such a thing, hurting a child he claims to be trying to protect. Or are those kids just collateral damage in your personal little war that's based on "FACTS" that you can't back up?

Again, how many interviews have been done with CALO students, past or present? Do you have photographs of staff using this bent wrist maneuver, whatever the hell that is? And I ask again, just how are these students "abducted"? I remember a kid who was going to his first day of kindergarten. His mother took him to the school and left him there, and he screamed bloody murder for the three hours until the half-day was over. It seems, if I were to follow your specious logic, that that kindergartner was abducted by an unfeeling parent, and held hostage by a kindergarten teacher.

My younger daughter went to a boarding school because she was doing badly in our local public school which wouldn't acknowledge that she had problems focusing. She and I went together and looked at two boarding schools. One was very preppy and all the kids were wearing clothes that I could tell had designer labels inside. Not the place for my daughter. We went to visit the second school, and it was completely different. My daughter would receive much more individualized education, and would learn responsibility because it was a working farm and all the kids had jobs that rotated. It was very artsy. Everyone had barn duty at some point, which meant getting up at 5 a.m. and milking the cows. Now when I took my daughter up there, she was not happy. She wanted to be back at her old school with her friends. She called me daily for awhile, wanting to come home. So, according to you, I "abducted" her although she actually put herself into the car, I took her to a place where she didn't want to be -- because I knew better than she did that she would be better off there, and I allowed her to be held hostage by some cows. Well, it didn't take long before she loved the school, and has never regretted going there. But the FACT apparently is that she was abducted and held hostage.

Please tell me how you know this "FACT" that students at CALO are abducted and held hostage. Links, please, to reliable sources with irrefutable evidence. Thank you.

11
The Troubled Teen Industry / Re: A CALO response by Ken Huey
« on: June 22, 2009, 12:59:25 AM »
I'm not going to quote the long post with all the links. Just too much scrolling required. But the questions I asked were not answered. The links had nothing to do with CALO. I asked for links that would show that torture exists at CALO. You gave me a lot of links concerning kidnapping, psychological damage, blahblahblah, but oddly, there was no mention of any of this occurring at CALO.

Again I ask: How did your beef with CALO originate? Why are you so stridently determined to attack the school and, ironically, its STUDENTS you claim to be so concerned about. You say I should educate myself about these abductions. Isn't that what I'm trying to do? I am sincerely trying to find out what happens, if students are woken in the night and dragged out of their homes with hoods over their head and shackles on their arms and legs, and transported to CALO. You claim they are abducted, but when asked, you refuse to back that up. So please educate me.

Have you visited this school? Have you seen reliable reports that the students are being held prisoner, which is, as you said "EXTRADINARILY DAMANGING" (by the way, if you use Firefox, you'll have a built-in spell checker, which may give you more credibility as to your own education).

Please show me where I said the school is "fantatic," or even "fantastic." I said I like the idea of the students bonding with dogs. Aside from that, I know nothing about the school. In fact, I think you probably know less than I do, since you can't answer any questions about it. You seemed to have jumped on a bandwagon without knowing where it's going.

12
The Troubled Teen Industry / Re: A CALO response by Ken Huey
« on: June 21, 2009, 11:06:57 PM »
Quote from: "Guest"
Quote from: "houseguest"
Since Guest said "at least that's what I heard," he was not stating a fact. Just repeating a rumor, which seems to be right in line with what all your posts are about.

So, are you saying that CALO does not hold people prisoner, does not "accept" "students" through "escort" (abduction)?

Please state yes or no.

Stating "no" would provide an answer that appears to counter CALO's own documentation. If you can provide reasonable evidence that CALO does not involve itself in abduction and imprisonment, I, personally, and most others will no longer assert it that it does.

thanks

Quite frankly, I have no idea.I've just been trying to figure out how you came to have a beef with this particular school. I don't know much about it, but I very much like the concept of interaction between the students and the dogs. All of these kids have attachment problems, from what I understand. And giving them the responsibilities and care of dogs, who love unconditionally, seems to be a good idea. Children who were adopted after the first year or so, and were adopted from an institutional setting, do tend to have problems that children adopted as newborns don't have.

If you could give me some solid links (not blogs or peoples' websites, but actual news reports and published research) I very much would like to read more about this "torture" you claim is going on there. How many CALO graduates have you interviewed? What questions were asked? Have you looked at their behavioral history prior to their attendance at CALO (regardless of how they got there)? Do you doubt that parents have explored every possible option before taking the big (and expensive) step of sending a child to a residential therapeutic setting?

Please explain to me just how CALO got between your crosshairs, what research you've done to back up your claims, and why you feel it necessary to put children's treatment reports online where the world can see them. That can potentially do more damage than you claim the school is doing. I don't have a dog in this fight, but from what I see here, it's hard to avoid coming to the conclusion that this is a crazy bunch of domestic terrorists.

13
The Troubled Teen Industry / Re: A CALO response by Ken Huey
« on: June 21, 2009, 10:38:02 PM »
Quote from: "Guest"
3 posts in 10 minutes. They're really freakin out. Pretty funny.

"They?" I don't know about anyone else, but I'm a pretty speedy typist. I don't freak out easily. I did freak out once when a mosquito was buzzing around my ear while I was trying to sleep. I grabbed a tissue box and slammed it repeatedly against the ceiling until I squashed the bastard. After that I noticed my dogs would cower whenever I grabbed a tissue to blow my nose. But this? This is child's play. I've never seen such a pack of loons (IMO) in one place in my life.

Oh, and I hear it makes a difference when y'all have dial-up. You might want to upgrade.

14
The Troubled Teen Industry / Re: A CALO response by Ken Huey
« on: June 21, 2009, 10:21:46 PM »
Quote from: "Guest"
Quote from: "Guest"
The difference between Michael Crawford v. Insane Cults: please supply a link to explain what on earth you are talking about and how it relates to Jean Filer's lonely dirty-bedpan death.

http://www.culthelp.info/index.php?opti ... ew&id=5116

Simply put, this relates to what you call "jean filer's bedpan death," in that people can be legally forced to pay damages for "lies"  and untruths, but will not be forced to pay damages for the truth. Therefore, when programs try to sue US for telling the truth, however ugly, they tend to loose.

This also means, if Femanon wanted to sue you for what you said about Ms. Filer, she could and she would win. You would be forced to pay damages and the post would be removed, by order of law.

(note to femanon: please, please sue)

Yes, Vermin, please, please try to sue. If you find an attorney to represent you, you will have to pay a big retainer because nobody would take on a frivolous contingency case like this. Since Guest said "at least that's what I heard," he was not stating a fact. Just repeating a rumor, which seems to be right in line with what all your posts are about. And if it gets into a court, the judge will laugh you out of there and maybe even hold you in contempt for wasting the court's time.

So good luck with that. Using your own word, I think Vermin would "loose."

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