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Offline BuzzKill

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A cult?
« Reply #225 on: May 17, 2005, 03:09:00 PM »
Well I know Greg and Niles will Poo-Poo anything that cast a critical eye on their "intellectual" editorialist; but for others who might wonder about the Christian point of view on the Jesus Myth:

http://www.bede.org.uk/jesusmyth.htm


My personal thoughts are, that this is one more Great Lie being spread about to ensnare those so willing to believe without question such lies. But I would think that, wouldn't I? That alone shields you from having to take seriously anything I might say. If you can be brought to the point of denying Jesus ever even lived - you can be kept from ever giving the issue of Salvation any thought at all - And this saves the Great Liar the trouble of working to keep your mind off such troubling subjects as your eternal soul and its salvation.  He is very clever.

But you each have your own free will - and you each may believe and live more or less as you please.

Free Will is an important Christian concept and one you would do well to spend some time considering.

You each (Greg and Niles) have indicated that you must have proof. Niles, I think you were saying God should just make Himself known to you. Consider for a moment - if He did make Himself known to you - Would you have any ability left to deny Him?
He wants your Faith and Love not because you are forced to give it but because you chose to give it. To allow you this choice, He must take the chance you will turn away.  You may walk in darkness or in the Light - but the choice must remain yours to make.

All this being said, I want to be clear - I bear you no ill will for not being for swayed by any argument I might make. I do realize many would and I find that regrettable. I feel it is due to their not understanding it isn't the job of a Christian to convince unbelievers to agree with us. We are only called to present the truth as best we are able according to the gospels. It is not our responsibility to turn stony ground into fertile soil, and we shouldn't be offended or angry when disagreed with.

So, if you guys will just kindly hand me back that platter with my head on it . . .
Lets give one another a wink and a smile and go on our separate ways.

Love you guys.

PS.
You do make some important points in your last post above. The Biblical God is not the same as the god/gods of any other faith. He is very clear on that point.
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Offline Anonymous

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A cult?
« Reply #226 on: May 17, 2005, 03:27:00 PM »
Quote
On 2005-05-17 12:09:00, BuzzKill wrote:

"Well I know Greg and Niles will Poo-Poo anything that cast a critical eye on their "intellectual" editorialist; but for others who might wonder about the Christian point of view on the Jesus Myth:



http://www.bede.org.uk/jesusmyth.htm




Why would you say that? I have read EVERY LINK you posted. YOu cannot say the same. Don't cast stones in glass houses....

Quote
you can be kept from ever giving the issue of Salvation any thought at all - And this saves the Great Liar the trouble of working to keep your mind off such troubling subjects as your eternal soul and its salvation.  He is very clever.
<


Unfortuanately for you, this argument isn't.  I have told you I was "saved" in a penecostal church. I know ex evengelical preachers who are now atheists. All these people, including me, appear to have given this MUCH MORE thought than you.


Quote


You each (Greg and Niles) have indicated that you must have proof.


And this is "proof" you never read what I post. I have never asked for proof. I have asked for evidence, a concept you can't seem to grasp.

Quote
Niles, I think you were saying God should just make Himself known to you. Consider for a moment - if He did make Himself known to you - Would you have any ability left to deny Him?



Right, and then this little charade game would be over. Ask yourself why a god described as omniescent and omnipotent would need to create a universe for the sole purpose of getting worshippers and then also describe himself as angry, vengefull, sad, etc.  These are all human concepts. You have created your god in your own image.

Quote

He wants your Faith and Love not because you are forced to give it but because you chose to give it. To allow you this choice, He must take the chance you will turn away.  You may walk in darkness or in the Light - but the choice must remain yours to make.




Silly human concepts. At least in the old testament, when he came to kill, mame, rape or torture, he showed his face.


Quote

You do make some important points in your last post above. The Biblical God is not the same as the god/gods of any other faith. He is very clear on that point."


Right! But he also makes it clear that THERE ARE OTHER GODS.

Yours is the war god. Have fun in eternity worshipping him. Remember, eternity is a long time...one slip and its off to the Lake for you!!!
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Offline GregFL

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A cult?
« Reply #227 on: May 17, 2005, 03:35:00 PM »
OMG, I just read your link.

Tell me you did not link me to another "Tacitus and Josepheus apologetic site?(and even your author admits to fraud in Josephus and misleads throwing out 66ad..when was this written..hint..long after 66ad)

 Also, THIRD CENTURY writers as evidence for Jesus? Hannibal existed therfore Jesus did?  Comparing the pagans to the Jesus/myth only works when you "cast a large net?

That is perhaps the lamest link you have provided yet...



No..no...nooooooooo   my brain is melting!!!!
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Offline GregFL

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A cult?
« Reply #228 on: May 17, 2005, 03:36:00 PM »
Quote
On 2005-05-17 12:17:00, Anonymous wrote:

"
Quote

On 2005-05-17 12:09:00, BuzzKill wrote:


"
http://www.bede.org.uk/jesusmyth.htm







 And this saves the Great Liar the trouble of working to keep your mind off such troubling subjects as your eternal soul and its salvation.  He is very clever.





I try[/b] to read your posts all the way through, I swear I do but I just can't.  I get to things like the above and its all just so preposterous that I can't even go on.  



Great Liar....hmmmm would that be Cardinal Law???"


I am trying to take the high road and analzye everything she posts even as she admits she ignores and dismisses everything I post.

My brain hurts.

 :grin:
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Offline GregFL

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A cult?
« Reply #229 on: May 17, 2005, 03:40:00 PM »
I have a question about the "great Liar" Satan. He supposedly left heaven and took 1/3 of the Angels with him.

Who Created Satan?  Why isn't he in the creation story? Did he predate the earth?  Have the angels (and demons) always existed? Are they immortal? If they always existed, then God couldn't have created them. If he created them, Then why did he do a such a crappy job they were able to pull off a coup in Heaven?


Hmmm...christianity is not montheistic after all..there are multiple gods..we just call them Angels, Satan, and Demons.


There is a  universe, existing in existence, chockerblock full of these Gods, and not one of them bothers to show himself.

Very interesting indeed...very interesting in the context of absurdity that is.
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Offline GregFL

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A cult?
« Reply #230 on: May 17, 2005, 03:44:00 PM »
Quote
On 2005-05-17 12:09:00, BuzzKill wrote:



Free Will is an important Christian concept and one you would do well to spend some time considering.



Okay, I will consider free will. But, you must answer some question for me to help me analze it. Please just answer, no editorializing.

1) is god omniescient..ie: does he know everything past present and future?

2) is free will absolute. We are free to make any decisions we wish with respect to our life?


Thanks for the answers.
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Offline Anonymous

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A cult?
« Reply #231 on: May 17, 2005, 10:57:00 PM »
Free will anyone?


Do we have it or not? can someone answer my questions above?
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Offline Nihilanthic

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A cult?
« Reply #232 on: May 17, 2005, 11:40:00 PM »
God wants me to be free to BELEIVE, but not free to know. If I knew, I couldnt deny, and thus I could not choose to believe?

What a load of hogwash!

What just and good god would require belief on the grounds of no evidence? If that were the case, then it would be so much of a religious crapshoot! Playing spin the wheel of eternity and hope BY CHANCE you were either born to or convert to the right religion.

But oh, wait, before you were saying that the bible had proof. Flip flop flip flop flip flop flip flop......

See, this brings me back to point #1. RELIGION IS BULLSHIT. If I have any spirituality left after this little fiasco of a thread, its definitely not going to have a damn thing to do with any human middlemen.

Whenever the General Government assumes undelegated powers, its acts are unauthoritative, void, and of no force.
http://laissezfairebooks.com/product.cfm?op=view&pid=FF7485&aid=10247' target='_new'>Thomas Jefferson: Kentucky Resolutions, 1798

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Offline Anonymous

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A cult?
« Reply #233 on: May 18, 2005, 10:07:00 AM »
Quote
On 2005-05-17 20:40:00, Nihilanthic wrote:

"God wants me to be free to BELEIVE, but not free to know. If I knew, I couldnt deny, and thus I could not choose to believe?



What a load of hogwash!



Since it is such an erroneous gamble what-with all the various gods, different religions, different sects of religions, even different secs of christianity..all professing they have the answer and way to Eternal bliss...How about this?

the "what if" hypothesis...

God is hiding on purpose and has created all these phony religions for stupid humans to become elitist and kill and discriminate with. It is a test of character....  Come Judgement day, He is going to award only Those Strong enough to not believe based on no evidence. He wants all ass-kissing scared of death humans in HELL, buring for eternity.


Tell me, is this any more or less ridiculous than all this other supernatural hocus pocus?

And please don't write back and tell me I have flawed logic, I don't believe this any more than I believe in Jesus rising from the dead or talking snakes tempting women with magical fruit.


No one has bothered to answer my free will questions.  I think they know this won't stand up to critical review....
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Offline GregFL

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« Reply #234 on: May 18, 2005, 12:16:00 PM »
Sorry, that was me....
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Offline GregFL

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« Reply #235 on: May 18, 2005, 01:24:00 PM »
Quote
On 2005-05-17 12:44:00, GregFL wrote:

"
Quote

On 2005-05-17 12:09:00, BuzzKill wrote:





Free Will is an important Christian concept and one you would do well to spend some time considering.






Okay, I will consider free will. But, you must answer some question for me to help me analze it. Please just answer, no editorializing.



1) is god omniescient..ie: does he know everything past present and future?



2) is free will absolute. We are free to make any decisions we wish with respect to our life?





Thanks for the answers. "



Have you people just given up? If free will is an important christian concept...lets talk about it.  Somone please answer my questions...
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #236 on: May 18, 2005, 01:28:00 PM »
Yes God knows everything. He knows what you are thinking right now. He knows the outcome of your life. He is everywhere and has a perfect plan for the universe. You are  part of god's perfect plan.

Yes, you have free will to choose. This is important to God. Free will is important to God. God wants you to come to him by faith. When you realize this, you will see the grace of God.
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Offline GregFL

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« Reply #237 on: May 18, 2005, 01:42:00 PM »
Interesting.  So you are saying , that God Knows everything..past present and future, my thoughts, my desires?


Lets take an example. Lets say that God knows tommorrow at 8 oclock that I am going to steal something.This fits your example perfectly, the omniscience of an all knowing god?

With me so far?

But...there is a problem...no matter which way we answer this, a problem for christian dogma comes into play. Lets explore!



If God knows EVERYTHING, and he knows I will steal something tomorrow at eight oclock, then I cannot change what god knows will happen. Therefore, I must steal tommorow at 8 oclock.I have no choice in the matter.. It is predetermined...I HAVE NO FREE WILL.

DAMN!!!!!


But wait......

If I have free will, if I am free to change my mind and not steal tomorrow at 8 oclock, if the ultimate morality of this is my decision, then God does not know everything, because the future is determined by a choice I will make. Then God can't forsee the future.

Double Damn!!



Someone please tell me...BUZZKILL, help me out here.

Do I have free will, or is God omniscient?  


Which closely held Christian dogma is wrong?



Comn...help me out here!!!!
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Offline BuzzKill

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A cult?
« Reply #238 on: May 18, 2005, 04:36:00 PM »
Greg, Why are you asking me for more responses?
There is nothing I can say that will make the least bit of difference to you; or that you can say that will impress me.

I have grown weary of you accusing me of not reading your posts or responding to your comments or links (its not my fault if the dam thing won't open for me)When I Have responded and explained my thoughts on the subject, at times, repeatedly.
I feel that I am getting no thoughtful reply to anything I have said and that the various points I have made have been willfully misunderstood.
 
I have grown weary of having my intelligence questioned for no more reason than I question the scholarship, integrity and agenda of your sorces.

I'm perfictly willing to let you and Niles have the feild.

But anyway - as to your new line of questions - Yes, God is all knowing. But this is Not the same as making you do anything. You do what you will. It seems to me you are trying to cast blame on God for not Making you do what you should, b/c He knows what wrong you will do.  Its up to you weather you are a blessing or a curse to the people around you.

I'll close with some Floydian scripture.
Its been running threw my head.


All alone, or in twos -
the ones who Really love you -
walk up and down outside the wall.
Some hand in hand.
Some gathered together in bands.
The bleeding Hearts and Artist make their stand.
And when they've given you their all -
Some stagger and fall -
After all -
Its not easy -
Banging your heart against some mad buggers wall.
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Offline GregFL

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« Reply #239 on: May 18, 2005, 04:49:00 PM »
You did it again. You ignored the logical conclusion, ignored the questions and just threw dogma like doggie doo.

And you accussing me of not reading your points? After I have in detail responded to you and then you responded by pasting what, 5 or so Tacitus and Josephus apologetic websites in response to providing contemporaneous evidence of Jesus?
After you admitted you dismissed what I was writing and didn't even go to our links?

hehe...typical. Very typical.

Which is it Buzzkill...do you have freewill or is god Omniscient?

Wanna answer it or continue to tap dance?


Buzzkill, thanks for playing!
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