Methods and Techniques

[Antigen]

On 2005-04-22 14:17:00, Anonymous wrote:


"If a child runs off campus, what would you suggest would be the best policy? Let them walk and then call the parents? Let them walk and then call the law? What if they are 14 or 15. What would you suggest the safest way to handle that situation would be? As a parent, I would want to be notified immediately, and the law notified immediately as well to try to find my child.This is clearly not just a "dropping out of school" issue if they live on the campus of a boarding school. I would like some opinion on this subject as to the best scenario for this sort of situation."

Ok, first and foremost, before the kid walks off in the first place, examine what's so bad about the place that so many kids decide to take the risk. And what's the penalty for running away? Is it more-or-less reasonable and in line w/ the "crime" of ducking class to go for a walk? I suspect it's not. Every other Synanon based program that I know about employs a sort of re-initiation to deter escape attempts. Having split twice during my time w/ Straight, I spent many hours weighing the relative risks and benefits of turning myself in.

I once hitchhiked all the way down through Florida (took 4 days) and arrived hungry, tired and just out of steam and ideas. I wanted to talk to my brother and see if he could put me up w/ a friend or something so I could stay out till I came of age in another year and a half or so. I made it as close to home as the back yard of a neighbor at the end of the street, about 4 doors down. I ate a grapefruit, wished desperately that oranges or star fruit had been in season cause the grapefruit really burned my long empty stomach. I hid in the bushes, slept a little but mostly watched the house till nightfall, weighing the risk of getting busted by a neighbor or my dad if I tried going to the house. Eventually, I decided it wasn't worth the risk and turned around and hitchhiked all the way back out of Florida.

I remember a good many other kids having done desperate things to stay out. As far as I know, there's a young man named Wayne who split from BCA (or another CEDU gulag) who was last seen months ago in the San Francisco area. I'm pretty sure his mom and dad have realized their big mistake and would not return him. But I doubt very seriously if the kid would ever believe it if they promised on their dead ancestors' names.

In other words, that jingoistic method of detering escape attempts often backfires and workes as a powerful deterrant to voluntary return.

They know that it is human nature to take up causes whereby a man may oppress his neighbor, no matter how unjustly. ... Hence they have had no trouble in finding men who would preach the damnability and heresy of the new doctrine from the very pulpit.
--Galileo Galilei, Italian astronomer

_________________
Ginger Warbis ~ Antigen
Drug war POW
Seed `71 - `80
Straight, Sarasota
   10/80 - 10/82
Anonymity Anonymous
return undef() if /coercion/i;

[juniper]

Dysfunction Junction,

If you were truly privy to this info from
working with the school, why didn't you turn
them in to the Feds?  And, Robert Bruce, did you
or your family sue the school or go to Child Services?

[Anonymous]

Yes, most of the research shows that grouping adolescents together in detention, psych hospitals or treatment programs can make them worse-- they learn new maladaptive behaviors.  Least restrictive treatment in the community is still the best option.  We need real services in the community that these kids can turn to though, and a humane, relevant public educational system.

[Troll Control]

Turn WHO in to what FEDS?  This doesn't make any sense.

I never saw anything illegal (as far as I know).  I did see lots of unethical and immoral things.  Those issues I brought directly to the executive staff.  As I have said earlier, most, if not all complaints by staff, kids or parents were either poo-pooed or ignored.

Part of the problem with these places, Juniper, is that there are very varied and unclear "rules" for their operation.  Often times the states simply ignore the deficiencies and "certify" them anyway, as in the case of another program in Ohio that was recently found in violation of dozens of state laws and regulations, but, inexplicably, was re-certified by the state.

Need I remind you that YOUR CHILD is there right now and you're not acting on what you can surely control yourself?  Why aren't you getting your kid and calling the "Feds"?

[juniper]

Feds, yes we are working on it.  First you have
Environmental, ORS, DCFS,and the list goes on...
The point I am trying to make is why wasn't
anything done? Everyone comes on here and complains, shares their experiences, but I'd
like to know if anyone has pursued a law suit
against HLA, turned them in to DCFS, contacted
ORS, ACLU checking Human RIghts Violations,
called State of Georgia DOE with complaints, etc.
If they did what happened?  When I call, they have no registered complaints.  The "FEDS" do get
involved.For Deborah, RobertBruce and everyone else,  http://www.ISACCORP.org register your complaints.
They are pro-active in helping shut down the
schools that are violating child safety laws, along with fraud, etc.  Please e-mail them
about any school placing children in harms way.
Contact Shelby Earnshaw, http://www.isaccorp.org.
I understand what you are saying about reading between HLA's words, they try to cover themselves
and apparently do very well.  However, right is right, maybe naive, but I believe in the human spirit and abuse is not just physical.  Thanks

[Antigen]

On 2005-04-25 06:11:00, Anonymous wrote:

We need real services in the community that these kids can turn to though, and a humane, relevant public educational system.

Can you give an example of a humane and relavent public school system? Cause the one we've got is not that. It's based on the Prussian model; same philosophy that left Germany so ripe for exploitation by the Nazis. Here's a good read on that. http://www.educationreformbooks.net/

I think you're working from a couple of faulty premises. First, that kids are disordered and in need of repair and second that the public sector is the answer to everything.

Virtually all kids resist schooling. That's why we have so many layers of rules and traditions to compel attendance. By definition, a kid that doesn't resist that insult is disordered, not the other way around. School failure and truancy are not pathologies needing treatment. If anything, they're signs of character and strength.

I laughed reading about all that is mandated by MA law wrt meeting children's educational needs. The laws of nature trump all regulation and legislation ~ always. There isn't the money to provide these services; there probably isn't the need for special services in most cases and, even if there were, the services don't exist. Great! If that ever works out, maybe we should mandate by law that water run uphill to eleviate flooding. If your kid is bored and distracted in school it only means they're paying attention and properly assessing the situation as boring and not worthy of their attention. It's not the kid who needs to be fixed.

What we need is not more layers of public sector tinkering, but a return to respect for individual sovereignty and voluntary cooperation.

Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former.
--Albert Einstein

[Deborah]

Environmental- Do you mean the Health Dept? If so, I did contact them to inquire if they had given HLA permission for the 'restriction diet'. The headmaster told parents they had approved it, which was blatant lie. It is not within thier scope of services to do so.

ORS- I called ORS when HLA told me that wilderness programs were not required to have a license in Ga. There was an investigation which resulted in RC being licensed. They 'negotiated' with HLA and determined that they were a 'Specialty School' and didn't require them to be licensed. I think they assume that the Accreditation Associations which they are members of, monitor them. It's my understanding that those assoc's monitor the academics, not the health, safety, staff requirements, therapeutic model, students rights, etc.
ORS does not address abuse/neglect.

CPS- In order for CPS to investigate a parent has to be able to say definitely that there is abuse.
They weren't concerned that he was in an unlicensed wilderness program at the time, with staff who did not meet state requirements. I wouldn't discourage anyone from calling even if it's to report suspected abuse. I can't tell you what CPS would consider 'abusive'. So much of it is emotional/psychological, which is hard to prove.

DOE- At the time they weren't listed with the BOE (board of ed). I haven't checked in a while. Okay, I checked and they are not listed.

GAC- They are accredited with GAC as an 'Educational Agency with Special Purpose'. You can read the requirements here:
http://www.coe.uga.edu/gac/standards/educagencies.html
Anyone could certainly file a complaint if they know HLA is in violation. This is academic monitoring- not going to be particularly interested in abuse/neglect.

SACS- They are also accredited with SACS as a 'Secondary Special Purpose School'. You can read the requirements here:
http://www.sacscasi.org/region/standard ... nonpub.pdf

ACLU- Couldn't help. I did work with an HR organization. One of their staff helped me compose letters to certain politicians and government offices. No response - primarily because they were/are considered a private corporation, and as such have significant protection.

TX/Ga Offices of ICPC- HLA and most other programs accept children in violation of this federal law. Tx didn't even know how to interpret the law, therefore defered to Ga. Georgia claimed that HLA was a private boarding school, therefore exempt. This, inspite of all the information I provided to the contrary.

FBI- They will get involved if there is known abuse, and it has to pretty bad.

Lawsuit- It is not wise to discuss this on a public forum. There are several who are interested, have mentioned it. Many parents that have contacted me had hired attorneys to assist them in getting a refund of pre-paid tuition, but planned to just chalk it up as a mistake.

[Anonymous]

On 2005-04-25 09:41:00, Antigen wrote:

"

On 2005-04-25 06:11:00, Anonymous wrote:


We need real services in the community that these kids can turn to though, and a humane, relevant public educational system.

Can you give an example of a humane and relavent public school system? Cause the one we've got is not that. It's based on the Prussian model; same philosophy that left Germany so ripe for exploitation by the Nazis. Here's a good read on that. http://www.educationreformbooks.net/



I think you're working from a couple of faulty premises. First, that kids are disordered and in need of repair and second that the public sector is the answer to everything.



Virtually all kids resist schooling. That's why we have so many layers of rules and traditions to compel attendance. By definition, a kid that doesn't resist that insult is disordered, not the other way around. School failure and truancy are not pathologies needing treatment. If anything, they're signs of character and strength.



I laughed reading about all that is mandated by MA law wrt meeting children's educational needs. The laws of nature trump all regulation and legislation ~ always. There isn't the money to provide these services; there probably isn't the need for special services in most cases and, even if there were, the services don't exist. Great! If that ever works out, maybe we should mandate by law that water run uphill to eleviate flooding. If your kid is bored and distracted in school it only means they're paying attention and properly assessing the situation as boring and not worthy of their attention. It's not the kid who needs to be fixed.



What we need is not more layers of public sector tinkering, but a return to respect for individual sovereignty and voluntary cooperation.

Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former.
--Albert Einstein

"

I agree with your source.  The irrelevance and Prussian, drone creating industialized school machine IS what needs to be changed.  I'm ok with dropping compulsory education laws and mere SEAT TIME requirements.  That is 85% of my kid's problem, as it is for many.  Kids become "disordered" - rebellious and turned off - from dealing with that crap.....Yet I do believe that some kids do have Bi-Polar Disorder, ADHD, etc., and that we could be a little more accomodating and flexible with them at school instead of criminalizing them.  If kids' needs are being met in a respectful manner, there should be no need to call the police.

Getting rid of compulsory education will require public participation on some level.  In the meantime, there are civil rights laws that kids and parents can use to protect the kid.  If kids must be there, then their needs should be met, and their education appropriate to their stengths and needs and interests.... or we could continue as a society to pack them of to jail, youth detention centers, or therapeutic boarding schools.  

I think we agree that one of the roots of this crisis is what kids are forced to do or put up with.

[Deborah]

Do you think it possible to have a standard outlining what childrens' needs are, like no more than X minutes sitting in a classroom.
I don't think they were considering kids needs when most schools eliminated mandatory PE class to squeeze in more academics, which some are recognizing as a mistake.

If a child has an IEP/ARD the district is required to provide their 'needs'. And here's how that can go:

My sister knew her son needed special accomodations- a quieter space to work and test. She bit the bullet and got him dx (ADHD) and drugged in order for his 'needs' to be met. He'd been on the drug for a while, only during the week, and had so many side effects that she took him off of it. Didn't mention this to the school, and no complaints from them.
At a recent ARD meeting they told her that they no longer saw symptoms of ADHD and that he would no longer receive special accomodations. They suggested that his 'problems' were 'behavioral' and he would benefit from being mainstreamed.
The psychologist (not psychiatrist) disagreed- he saw symptoms of ADHD and depression- and told her she needed to put him back on meds. She asked if he'd accompany her to the next ARD meeting and present his professional opinion in order that her son may retain special accomodations- where he was doing very well, btw.
He said he couldn't, he would have to defer to the teachers observations and the ARD's decision.
She went to the principal with her complaint. He agreed with her and overrode the ARD decision.
He is not taking the drugs, and is doing well.

[Antigen]

On 2005-04-25 11:39:00, Deborah wrote:

"

Do you think it possible to have a standard outlining what childrens' needs are, like no more than X minutes sitting in a classroom.

I don't think they were considering kids needs when most schools eliminated mandatory PE class to squeeze in more academics, which some are recognizing as a mistake.

No, I don't really think you can set such a standard for all kids. Really, I dont' think you could set such a standard for one individual kid. Human beings, like most other creatures on this planet, are seasonal creatures. Some of us are thrilled to till a garden in the spring, but happy to quit that and move on to something else pretty shortly. When I was a kid I went through various phases. Sometimes, I couldn't force myself to do one more page of stupid repetative schoolwork (busy work) but, instead, wanted to talk and play and have fun. Other times I'd cloister myself w/ my books or binge on guitar or piano practice or biking or tinkering w/ various mad science projects w/ my dad or thinking of ways to turn a buck.

I have a deep seated envy of cultures that make play of work. I used to work for a small family restaurant. Every day, the dough had to be made. And that is boring work! But every day, the work was just a sideline to the event. It was a time for all of us to sit in the back, swap stories and jokes and such. Sometimes, it was about family business, in which case I'd be banished to the front to clean something or slice meats or some other necessary work.

It was just all so perfectly natural and pleasant; work and life and play running together and being indistinguishable from each other.

If a child has an IEP/ARD the district is required to provide their 'needs'. And here's how that can go:
...

I think your sister found a way to game the system to the benefit of her son. Good for her! But I don't think that's the ideal situation. I think the ideal situation would be to shut down the DOE and the entire public school system and quit taxing for them and let people seek their own education based on their own values and priorities.

Now, that said, the troubled parent pawns itself off as just what I've described. But they don't really provide. Just because it's not the public school system w/ their host of shrinks and pill pushers doesn't mean it's better in any way.

I think what we need is a epidemic of incredulity. Humans and other creatures have been bearing and rearing young on this planet for millions of years w/o any sort of professional assistance. It's the most natural thing in the world. Much of it comes pretty nearly automatically through instinct IF you give your own instinct and common sense precedence over dictates from on high.

That's all marijuana is, after all. It's just a plant, a common and easily grown one at that. In many cultures, its consumption was lawful for millennia. And in all that time, the bond between thugs, mayhem, murder and marijuana that we see today did not exist.

http://www.mapinc.org/author/Dan+Gardner' target='_new'>Dan Gardner, CanWest News Service

[Deborah]

Ditto... I totally agree.
and in the interim? Until parents catch on, and or public policy is changed?
I don't think best case is going to happen anytime soon, and if we are to continue having public education, it SHOULD consider kids' REAL needs.
I can see a possible scenerio, that public schools are subjected to so many regulations and limitations that the only reasonable conclusion would be that they indeed CAN'T provide childrens' needs.
There is no reason that a child can't do basically what you described in a group scenerio. My kids did. In Montessori. They loved going to school. Never complained until they went to public school, with ridiculous rules, excessive homework, stressful TAKS tests, no social time, have to ask permission to go to the restroom and may be denied, etc.
I don't know the politics, but what's the opposition to Montessori. I know some progressive schools that have implemented some of the philosophy, why not all, and why not all schools?
Seems that anything useful and proven to be beneficial has been rejected. Why not phonics???
It does make one wonder if schools aren't really bm/conditioning warehouses themselves.

[Antigen]

On 2005-04-25 13:41:00, Deborah wrote:

It does make one wonder if schools aren't really bm/conditioning warehouses themselves.

I used to wonder. Now I'm convinced of it.

For myself, I do not believe in any revelation. As for a future life, every man must judge for himself between conflicting vague probabilities.
--Charles Robert Darwin, English naturalist

[juniper]

Deborah,
Evironmental - Yes, health department. The fields
are contaminated with goose feces.  They need to be cleaned up and not by the children.  It is a walking respitory health hazard.  However, since
the owner does not have to work in it, sit in it,
do push ups in it, etc., obviously nothing has been done.  I'd like to deposit it in his home
for a bit and see how he likes it at 60,000.+
a year. I feel bad because obviously you have been around the block with everyone and hit dead ends.  But, it is the old saying, if you cannot
get them one way with the truth, there is always
another way with the truth.  ie. FOLLOW THE
MONEY TRAIL...  As with the Ed Con's, it works.
E-mail those people, please help us.  Thanks

[Deborah]

I'm sure it seemed like the idea place for the fields, but it was design error, given that the geese are probably permanent. I'd sure hate to see them harmed in anyway for the convenience of humans.
Send me a PM and let me know how I can help 'ya'll'.

[juniper]

Deborah,

Geese are not harmed.  They clean it up and
use scare-crow like structures.  For some crazy reason, they stay away.