Methods and Techniques

[RobertBruce]

MRS. GREY I do so love how easily predictable you are. Not only do you refuse to accept the fact that livng on the property in now way gives bearing to your testimony about what the day to day life was like for the students for the very simple and very obvious reason that you were not a student there. What is it about this you arent comprehending. I mean honestly MRS GREY you yourself admitted you had no knowledge nor expereinces with us in our counseling sessions, classes, dorms, or restrictions/work assingments. You claim that you ate with us in the cafeteria regurally and spent time with us at the lake on the weekends, yet as this has been shown, you arent telling the truth on this, you spent almost zero time with any of us, a point which you yourself reinforced by showing that after what four years you only knew the names of three students.

I wonder did you read my analogy about the families living on Alcatraz? Im sure you did but as you realized it made sense and contridicted your stupid nonsensical rationalizations you have ignored it. You know nothing about the school because you had nothing to do with the day to day life of it. Dont pretend otherwise MRS. GREY. It makes no difference whether you were there for four years or forty years, you simply were not involved and were not considered important enough to share any operational knowledge with. You never bothered to spend time with any of us, and you were never around us enough to bother to pick up on what was really going on. Oh and again as to your stupid bonfires, if they were such a mainstay why is no one of the dozens (and no that is by no means an exageration, emphasis on the plural part of dozens) of people Ive spoken with about it remember it? Explain that to me MRS GREY. Oh and your statement "and I do know what was going on while I was there. "

..........

why in the hell would you post something so assinine? Need we rehash just a few of the many many erroneous comments youve made in the last month or two which clearly show you had not a fucking clue as to what was going on while you were there. Oh forgive me, perhaps you did, in which you case you are a fucking liar, and will certianlly burn in hell.

Back to your predicatability though, I listed off a number of larger issues concerning HLA, predict you wont want to respond to any of them, and low and behold you dont respond to a single one! How wonderfull. Again just announcing to the entire board what a hypocritical coward you are. Unable to respond to any real issues or back up a single one of your stupid claims, and only willing to discuss pointless issues which have no merit. I mean just look at youself I asked you about what four or ive issues and you respond to how many of them? Zero. Instead you want to still piss and moan insisting that you know me, MRS GREY you dont you can keep claiming that but again lets examine the facts: You claimed you knew what time period I spent at HLA, yet later you told Juniper you had no idea when I attended HLA. Explain the discrepancy. You also stated you pieced together who I was from information I had given you. MRS GREY you had zero basis to formulate any kind of hypothosis as to who I was even if I had given you more than I did, remember you met me only once while at HLA and during that conversation learned no important details. You further stated that someone else confirmed my location to you, and that it was the state you already believed I lived in. Yet as I already told you, I dont live in the same state I did while attending HLA. Furthermore you have as of yet been unable to provide a single detail about my life, all because you claim it would be tacky? Admitt it MRS GREY, you never knew anything to begin with, preety much the story of your life huh?

I want you to accept things as they are MRS GREY, you are unqualified to comment on HLA as you had no operational knowledge of it, no involvement in the day to day activities of it, and never spent any time with students to have an understanding of what was going on.

The best you can do is say "From what I saw (or choose to remember) it seemed like a legitimate place tht was genuinely interested in helping children, however I had little to no involvement with the place and spent almost no time at all with the students. So Im probably not qualified to say what it was really like, and I would never call a former student there a liar, as I have no basis for such a claim."

If you were to say such a statement I might even be willing to call you Shhh, as it would show real progress on your part. Oh you should also admitt you dont know me, and cannot properly answer any of the issues put to you concerning HLA.

Lets see if you cant pretend to be a grownup here.

Again I doubt it. [ This Message was edited by: RobertBruce on 2005-12-23 11:28 ]

[Troll Control]

On 2005-04-29 19:44:00, SHH wrote:

"You forget something Dysfunction and Robert...you forget I lived on campus twice as long as both of you...I was associated with the school for 7 years..Robert you were there less then 2 yrs..same goes for Dysfunction...and D you were there 10 yrs ago. Yes I do know WHO you are Robert... I dont want to post your name because that is my choice...and Dysfunction if I dont know about the school back then how come I know about the big mac incident that got you in so much hot water?? And you claim no students ever remember bonfires but there were actually 3 of them...only the first one was my idea. Maybe no students you talked to went in those particular years. NO D. you dont know what I look like...never seen a picture of me, but I have met you you just dont remember it apparently. I never claimed to know everything about the school..but I do know what I personally experienced and I do know what was going on while I was there. "

Big Mac incident?  What the hell are you talking about?  I have no idea what you are referring to.  

I never "got in trouble" for anything, much less a hamburger(?).  I think you have me confused for someone else, although I never heard of a "Big Mac incident."  

Being a bodybuilder, athlete and health food "nut," I never even ate McDonalds, much less had an "incident" with a burger ().

You'll have to explain yourself.

I also told you earlier that I would take your word for it that your picture wasn't in Bill's office.  I don't see why you keep bringing it up, as I have said, I'll take your word for it that it may have been someone else.  I'll also take Robert's word for it what you look like, as he seems to know.  OK?

Again, I'll point out that you were "associated" with HLA for "seven years" (I'll take your word for that, too, although the facts are a bit foggy).  

What you seem not to understand is that I lived there, on campus, and was a counselor who worked with the kids all day every day.  You also don't seem to understand that Robert lived there, on campus, and was a "student" (inmate) who was involved with all aspects of the "program," all day every day.  

How does your experience of being an "associate" of the facility compare to both of our intimate involvement in HLA's daily workings?  

Well, I think any reasonable (of course not YOU) person would say that a full-time counselor who lived on campus and a full-time inmate locked up on campus would have a greater degree of insight than a person who was a part-time clerical assistant for one year who never saw a group, never saw a class, never overnighted with the kids, never had any sort of relationship with any kid and who, most of all, had absolutely no experience with the "program."  Wouldn't you agree?

Please don't post some rambling mess about bonfires or your husband or hamburgers () or any of that other garbage.  Please don't digress or divert.  

Please JUST answer the question posed: How does your experience as an associate compare with ours as a counselor and a "student"?

_________________
"Compassion is the basis of morality"

-Arnold Schopenhauer[ This Message was edited by: Dysfunction Junction on 2005-04-30 08:02 ]

[Troll Control]

On 2005-04-29 14:39:00, SHH wrote:

"You are only partially correct D. He only had the corner office for 3 months....he had 2 other offices while you were there. And there were NEVER pictures of any family members in his office back then...especially in the short 3 months he was in that one....He didnt have pictures of the kids in his office until after 1999 or so..and NEVER had a picture of me anywhere on campus. So you still have no clue what you are talking about...there were NO pictures you would have seen of me. You must have dreamed it up."

When I left HLA, I concluded my business with them via an exit interview, conducted by Bill Grey, in that tiny corner office, which he was still occupying, late 1995.

So, what you're saying is that he had that office for only 3 months in 1994?  That's simply false.

Just thought I'd point out another "mistake" in your "recollection."

[SHH]

I never said he had that office in 1994..I said he had it for 3 months....he had one before it...two after it..and you could have never had an exit interview in there anyway there was no room for more than 1 chair..you dont seem to remember the first one though..which would have been the majority of your time there...and he didnt do exit interviews for counselors Dysfunction..only those in depts under his direction...Dr. B did those or the headmaster. So who's "recollection" is mistaken? Could it be yours? I mean it was 10 yrs ago and you only worked there for about a year and a half. I mean you dont even remember the mcdonalds incident that got so many students pissed and almost got you fired(I never said YOU were the one eating Big Macs as you suggested in your previous post)....so maybe it was just too long ago to remember everything.

[Troll Control]

On 2005-05-01 19:59:00, SHH wrote:

"I never said he had that office in 1994..I said he had it for 3 months....he had one before it...two after it..and you could have never had an exit interview in there anyway there was no room for more than 1 chair..you dont seem to remember the first one though..which would have been the majority of your time there...and he didnt do exit interviews for counselors Dysfunction..only those in depts under his direction...Dr. B did those or the headmaster. So who's "recollection" is mistaken? Could it be yours? I mean it was 10 yrs ago and you only worked there for about a year and a half. I mean you dont even remember the mcdonalds incident that got so many students pissed and almost got you fired(I never said YOU were the one eating Big Macs as you suggested in your previous post)....so maybe it was just too long ago to remember everything. "

How are you going to tell me what I did and saw?  God, woman, are you really that arrogant?

Yes, I did do my exit interview with Bill, in that office.  Don't tell me I didn't.  I was there.  AGAIN, you were NOT.

I never "almost got fired" for ANYTHING, much less a burger.  WTF?  

I will now say, for a fact, you are a LIAR.  You have no idea what you're talking about.

[Troll Control]

I asked you nicely to please answer an IMPORTANT question.  I asked you not to make another meaningless (lying) post and to answert one simple question (which again you refused because you are unable to deal with SUBSTANCE).

HOW DOES YOUR EXPERIENCE AS A PART-TIME CLERICAL ASSISTANT THAT NEVER HAD ANY CONTACT WITH ANY ASPECT OF THE "PROGRAM" COMPARE TO THE EXPERIENCES OF A FULL-TIME STUDENT AND FULL-TIME COUNSELOR?

Is it that hard to answer a substantive question?

PLEASE, no more lies, digressions or diversions.  TELL THE TRUTH FOR ONCE AND ANSWER THE QUESTION.

HOW DOES YOUR EXPERIENCE AS A PART-TIME CLERICAL ASSISTANT THAT NEVER HAD ANY CONTACT WITH ANY ASPECT OF THE "PROGRAM" COMPARE TO THE EXPERIENCES OF A FULL-TIME STUDENT AND FULL-TIME COUNSELOR?

[SHH]

Your ANSWER :

Your time at HLA was less then 2 yrs...more like a year and a couple of months...my time at HLA was 4 yrs on campus, 7 yrs associated with the school..I was married to its #2 employee...first employee to be hired to be precise. (well 2nd if you include Kevin)...it is my LENGTH of time at HLA that allows me to comment on my experiences..no I do not know every single detail of counseling sessions with children...but neither did you..you only know about the expereicnes of your own peer groups you knew...I knew about other aspects...and I did see hundreds of kids on a weekly then later on a daily basis when we moved up there... and I knew ALOT about the school in general ways through living there and my inlaws working there and knowing Dr. B and attending corporate retreats, meetings, etc...with upper management. So that DOES qualify me to talk about the school from MY perspective. And I was ALSO an employee for almost a year (11 months). Happy now? (I doubt it) OH and by the way I have NEVER lied on any post I ever put on here....I might have not remembered specific details properly or not remembered something from a specific month or something but I have NEVER EVER lied.
OH and one other thing...I know what I saw too..and I did know who Bill did exit interviews with because he would tell me who left on the days employees quit or got fired...he would tell me when that happened...so yes I do know what I am talking about and who he did exit interviews with.[ This Message was edited by: SHH on 2005-05-02 04:52 ]

[Anonymous]

you remind me of bill clinton at the impeachments hearings trying to explain why he told the american public "i did not have sexual relations with that woman."

a failing memory conveniently allows you to explain away and dismiss all the abuses that were clear as day to everyone else. unlike you, we do remember every detail about the school!

so you worked at hla for 11 months, huh? you "don't recall" seeing any abuse?
you must have had your head up your for
all that time, how the hell did you manage to breath.  that must've been a long 11 months!

[RobertBruce]

MRS GREY why in the hell would Buch ever have included you in any senior level meetings? Again you give yourself far to much credit. You had no operational knowledge of the school, and nothing to do with the day to day operation. As I said before it makes zero difference how long you were there, as by your own admission you had nothing to do with the major aspects of HLA. As to to not ever lying.....dont be stupid you told a lie the previous post, examine:

"and I did see hundreds of kids on a weekly then later on a daily basis when we moved up there.."

You yourself stated the bulk of your time there, there were less than 100 students, and there arent even 200 students there now.

Soooooooo explain?

Face facts, answer the questions put to you (none of my last questions put to you have been answered) looking forward to seeing you dodge you predicatable bullfrog looking bitch.

[Troll Control]

On 2005-05-02 04:47:00, SHH wrote:

"Your ANSWER :



Your time at HLA was less then 2 yrs...more like a year and a couple of months...my time at HLA was 4 yrs on campus, 7 yrs associated with the school..I was married to its #2 employee...first employee to be hired to be precise. (well 2nd if you include Kevin)...it is my LENGTH of time at HLA that allows me to comment on my experiences..no I do not know every single detail of counseling sessions with children...but neither did you..you only know about the expereicnes of your own peer groups you knew...I knew about other aspects...and I did see hundreds of kids on a weekly then later on a daily basis when we moved up there... and I knew ALOT about the school in general ways through living there and my inlaws working there and knowing Dr. B and attending corporate retreats, meetings, etc...with upper management. So that DOES qualify me to talk about the school from MY perspective. And I was ALSO an employee for almost a year (11 months). Happy now? (I doubt it) OH and by the way I have NEVER lied on any post I ever put on here....I might have not remembered specific details properly or not remembered something from a specific month or something but I have NEVER EVER lied.

OH and one other thing...I know what I saw too..and I did know who Bill did exit interviews with because he would tell me who left on the days employees quit or got fired...he would tell me when that happened...so yes I do know what I am talking about and who he did exit interviews with.[ This Message was edited by: SHH on 2005-05-02 04:52 ]"

More BS.  Again, someone who WASN'T EVEN THERE is going to tell people who ACTUALLY WERE THERE what happened.  Geez.  ZERO credibility here.

[Anonymous]

hey dj, check my profile for email address, i think my pm's regarding july 4th are not getting through...

[Troll Control]

:wave:
waving bye-bye to Mrs. Gray...

[Troll Control]

This was posted on another forum. When I read it, the descriptions of the "tactics" looked AWFULLY FAMILIAR...

 The tactics used to create undue psychological and social influence, often by means involving anxiety and stress, fall into seven main categories.

TACTIC 1
Increase suggestibility and "soften up" the individual through specific hypnotic or other suggestibility-increasing techniques such as:Extended audio, visual, verbal, or tactile fixation drills, Excessive exact repetition of routine activities, Sleep restriction and/or Nutritional restriction. SLEEP AND NUTRITIONAL RESTRICTIONS ARE USED AT HLA.

TACTIC 2
Establish control over the person's social environment, time and sources of social support by a system of often-excessive rewards and punishments. Social isolation is promoted. Contact with family and friends is abridged, as is contact with persons who do not share group-approved attitudes. Economic and other dependence on the group is fostered. OH, YEAH.  THIS, TOO.

TACTIC 3
Prohibit disconfirming information and non supporting opinions in group communication. Rules exist about permissible topics to discuss with outsiders. Communication is highly controlled. An "in-group" language is usually constructed. YES, YES, AND YES.

TACTIC 4
Make the person re-evaluate the most central aspects of his or her experience of self and prior conduct in negative ways. Efforts are designed to destabilize and undermine the subject's basic consciousness, reality awareness, world view, emotional control and defense mechanisms. The subject is guided to reinterpret his or her life's history and adopt a new version of causality. "BREAK 'EM DOWN, 'N BUILD 'EM UP"

TACTIC 5
Create a sense of powerlessness by subjecting the person to intense and frequent actions and situations which undermine the person's confidence in himself and his judgment. KIDS CONSISTENTLY SET UP FOR FAILURE AND LOSE ALL SELF ESTEEM.

TACTIC 6
Create strong aversive emotional arousals in the subject by use of nonphysical punishments such as intense humiliation, loss of privilege, social isolation, social status changes, intense guilt, anxiety, manipulation and other techniques. ALL OF THESE, YES.

TACTIC 7
Intimidate the person with the force of group-sanctioned secular psychological threats. For example, it may be suggested or implied that failure to adopt the approved attitude, belief or consequent behavior will lead to severe punishment or dire consequences such as physical or mental illness, the reappearance of a prior physical illness, drug dependence, economic collapse, social failure, divorce, disintegration, failure to find a mate, etc. FOR SURE.  DEADINSANEORINJAIL.  "YOUR PARENTS WON'T LOVE YOU ANYMORE"

These tactics of psychological force are applied to such a severe degree that the individual's capacity to make informed or free choices becomes inhibited. YES  The victims become unable to make the normal, wise or balanced decisions which they most likely or normally would have made, had they not been unknowingly manipulated by these coordinated technical processes. YES  The cumulative effect of these processes can be an even more effective form of undue influence than pain, torture, drugs or the use of physical force and physical and legal threats.  YOU BET IT CAN.

[SHH Anon Classics]

Have these tactics been used at other places where you have worked or at your current place of employment also?

[juniper]

Separate issue - I don't recall when you were at HLA, but I was wondering if you had court ordered
children attending then.  HLA states that they do not have court ordered children in their
demographic s, nor do they have severe behaviorally troubled children.  I know this is
not the case now.  Are they in violation of parental contracts because they now have court ordered children? Thanks