Hidden Lake academy

[Troll Control]

::bump::

[Deborah]

***I'm sure parents knew about searches because the students had to tell them about them. They tell them about everything else.

Well, we've got three parents posting here now that didn't know about them. Are we unique? My son never 'had to tell me about them'. He was also 'coached' on what was acceptable to tell before his call was made. In other words, what was acceptable to divulge about any incident.

Deborah,
1. Whats your background?
Are you asking about my personal or professional background? Most of that can be found in this forum.

2. Why are you so into HLA?
Not sure how to interpret that question, 'so into'?

3. In what capacity is this going to help you or your current situation?
I will assume that 'this' refers to me sharing my experience, opinions, and questions. Do I really need to answer that? Seems it would be obvious to any caring and rational person.
How does posting your experience and opinions help you? What's your vested interest?
If people hadn't talked (educated themselves and others) we might still witness blatantly overt acts of racism, rather than the occasional covert acts.

3. What is your opinion on why HLA doesn't tell parents they will be doing searches on the students.
I personally believe, based on the extensive research I have done on this industry, that programs give parents the least amount of information they can get by with. Things occur in programs that are not detailed in the manual or otherwise conveyed to parents. I personally consider this to be deceptive. Parents are buying a service, that comes with a hefty price tag. Seems reasonable that they would expect to know what they are buying.

And some, wouldn't have the skill to evaluate the methods and procedure if they knew every detail. I think this might be about half of the parents, the half that leave their child until graduation.

My ex didn't/stil doesn't know squat about BM. If he even read the parent manual, he would certainly have concluded that the methods were reasonable. He never consulted with an objective professional outside of HLA re: their methods. I did, and all were appauled, advising me to get my son out asap.

As to why, HLA and others don't mention strip searches... my opinion is that they know that at least some parents will be uncomfortable with this. Why create discomfort unnecessarily? To decrease attrition? To avoid lengthy dialogue necessary to explain the 'necessity'?

Considering that most of the 'contraband' is alleged to be acquired from staff, it seems that the most effective way to decrease the kids' acquisition of such would be to require staff to submit to strip searches every morning before taking their posts.
Yes, I?m being 'somewhat' facetious, as I'm sure staff would not comply with such a degrading and humiliating policy. I'm sure they'd see it as a violation of their rights. Imagine.

For all intents and purposes, these kids are being incarcerated (jailed?) for a psych dx, many (most?) times provided by the very facility that stands to gain monetarily from their placement. That is considered unethical by any rational person and the therapeutic industry in general. Unless of course they were a bonafide psychiatric hospital and a parent had brought their child to be evaluated by a psychiatrist. Ideally, the evaluations would be conducted independently before admission in that situation as well.
 
And to back track just a bit and elaborate on parents not being told specifics. My son was made to sleep in the woods overnight while at RC. He was given a black trash bag to lay on and a poncho to cover his head. No protection from the elements. No flashlight. No water. No food. And no adult within ear shot. Does that fit the accepted definition of a 'wilderness leadership' experience? Where was 'that' experience outlined in the literature or manual?

I have native heritage, so I value and appreciate what nature has to teach. I also appreciate and value, and have been a support person at 'vision quests' for young people. I can assure you that they do not resemble RC. The teen is prepared psychologically for the experience for weeks in advance, with the greatest of reverance for this passage from childhood to adulthood. Has several supporting adults attending. Is not sent out without water and food, unless s/he prefers to fast (this is choice). Is not force marched to the point of exhaustion/dehydration. And, is checked on ocassionally through the night(s) and can choose to come in if they desire.

The way these fad programs are run, it is highly likely that the kids will make a negative association with nature. After all, they are banned to the wild as 'punishment' with poor preparation. The majority of 'professionals' and staff in this industry haven't a clue how to 'help' kids in a respectful way. It could be done well, the truth is, it's not.

My son was vomiting all night. Screaming for assistance. No one to hear his calls. HLA/RC wouldn't exist today if he had died that night from a rattlesnake bite, appendicitis, or any other tragedy, and of course, if justice were served.

[revengeofamuffin]

Are you saying I am a liar? I am sorry, but that pinches a nerve. maybe you just got lucky and never had to do an old school HLA search. Bend over and hop in a circle naked. Hold your breasts and lift em up to see if there is anything there. I'm sorry but that is just worn

[Anonymous]

Hi Muffin. The reality is, you come on here, state your personal truthful story, and still will be called every name in the book. Lots of programmed graduates and crazy parents. Ignore the programmies, we are listening to you, and believe you.

[SHH]

The ones who share their experiences that aren't negative get called names too

[juniper]

To ALL - Please go to http://www.isaccorp.org. and register your complaints.  They will investigate
the school...Thanks.

[Deborah]

Juniper,
A point of clarification-
Does a parent need to have a child currenlty enrolled?

[juniper]

I have just contacted them and am waiting to hear from them.  I honestly do not know if one
has to be currently involved in a school, I would doubt it.  As long as one can stand by their experience, I would think they would want
to add it to their investigation.  E-mail them.
They'll let you know.  They have already contacted other parents.  Thanks for the support!

[juniper]

I honestly think that you have to understand that you are not a child that was placed there, that has lived a nightmare...or, a parent that desired a 'safe house' for their child.  Not all the children are behaviorally severe, so for HLA
to address them all as liars and manipulators is
ridiculous. One conveys their  experience: the HLA situation and other schools from a totally
different prospective than you.  You worked there.You cannot try to equate what you pathom to
what has happened to others.  I feel empathy for all children and families, their heart breaks, frustration.  Try and see it from their heart and eyes.  Something that may have been formed
with good intentions has gone wrong. It is human
error and power that makes these messes.  Everyone is responsible and accountable that
were at these schools and turned a blind eye.  Maybe you were lucky and did not see.  But, all one needs do, is really look into your childs' eyes and heart, and see, feel their fright.  It
is sad and everyone, counselors, Con Eds, family
that thought this was best,made a grave error and
continue to do so. It is in everyones best interest to heed our childs eyes, to listen to our gut...What we thought was our last hope for our children, was a grave mistake for some, and yes, for others, it may have saved their childs'
life.  But, there was and is a price. I think we
all learned that you can only trust your family.
There are good people everywhere,but family is home. And, to HLA and other schools like it,
I am sure there are new counselors that want to make a difference, but if they are good, they will leave..regretfully leaving the children behind.  It is a difficult situation for all..
But, counselors, when you leave, don't turn a blinds eye..I t will never 'really leave' you.
Remember what you were suppose to be teaching the children, "the truth will set you free...".
and,Shh, try and approach things from a different prospective.  It's now, about the children and the children after them.  It's not about you or the people on this post that complain, but go no further.If one does not let their voice be heard, they have none.  So, blow off the garbage thrown at you and think about what's really important.

[SHH]

Of course its about the children if they were really abused. I am not saying everybody lies on here. I never said they all were. And I know its not about me. But, I have just as much of a right to voice my experience there as a former resident of the campus of HLA and also former employee that is all I wanted to point out when I said that. But what I am concerned about happening is that some children may not have wanted to be placed there and will say and do anything to "get back" at the school. Same with employees who didnt appreciate being fired, or didnt feel as if they got fair treatment as an employee and quit, that might twist things that happened and exxagerate things. Its that scenario that would hurt innocent employees who do care about the kids there. I personally think that parents need to take responsibility for their children and keep them at home and put them first. However, IF that can't happen, I think some boarding type therapeutic schools have a place. Dr. B started the school as an inbetween type facility that wasnt a traditional boarding school and wasn't a wilderness program. He started Ridge Creek because other wilderness programs they were sending HLA kids to either werent what he wanted for them or werent good places. I was there during many a discussion about his goals for both places. His intentions are good make no mistake. I think that a place can always improve, so suggestions for improving I dont see a problem with. I do see a problem with HLA being portrayed as this horrible rat hole where abuse takes place on a daily basis and kids are beaten, imprisoned, and starving to death. That is simply NOT true. I lived on campus for 4 years. I saw HLA students on a daily basis in various stages, in the dining room, in the gym, during plays, doing restriction chores, playing sports, etc. It is true I was not a counselor. I dont have a perspective on what kind of treatment or counseling they got. But I still observed. And I observed closely because I have children myself and I would have noticed if children seemed malnourished or were crying excessively or seemed afraid. I am not calling every child or former employee liars or manipulators. I have seen exxagerations on here in some cases however. I have made it very clear that my perspective is from 1994-2001. Some on here who post their perspective is from 11 years ago and have no idea what goes on there now. Everybody's experience is different, I understand that. But to generalize the whole place as horrible because students didnt want to be there and a few employees didnt like working there is wrong. Alot of good people ARE associated with the place and have good intentions to really help kids. If you have ideas for improvement that makes sense and I can understand that. To want to shut it down and sue everybody and cause 180 innocent people to lose their jobs in this current economy does not make sense. Youre right Juniper it is about the kids. But look at it from a different perspective. Take what you hear with a grain of salt. And consider that quite possibly what you want to change can change without all the anger and hostility that I see on here.

[RobertBruce]

Again Mrs. Grey you cry foul when subjected to the same treatment you gave to others. You know its funny, I was able to in my stay at HLA accomplish that very thing, and the staff bitched about it as much as you are now. Some things dont change do they Mrs. Grey? In any event why go on and on about how you are entitled to share your experiences and your opinions of HLA (something weve shown to be invalid as you had to little to no involvement with the students) yet are so willing to call people liars when they employ the same tactics. Get over yourself, youre babbeling accomplishes nothing.  No one on here or anyone with the slighest inkling of common sense or an IQ over 50 buys any your bull shit, nor would they ever. Why continue discussing things you know nothing about?

In any event still waiting for you to back up any of your numerous numerous claims, but I know it will never happen, simply because you cant. One more justification to call you a blow hard. Making idle threats and promises you can never back up, constantly trying desperatly to discuss things that will always be well beyond your level of understanding. Give it up Mrs. Grey you arent fooling anyone, well aside from yourself.

[SHH]

Robert, I chose not to post your personal info on there for the reason I stated last week. I know who you are, and where you live, but I dont want to put it on here and already told you why. I am not stupid, dumb, retarded, nor do I have a low IQ. I posted MY PERSONAL experiences on here..not yours. But you act like I am not allowed to post or type because they dont agree with your view of the school. I did observe the kids doing different things during the day. What I didnt do was see them in their dorms or attend their counseling sessions or classes. THat still makes my experiences valid does it not? I already told you where my photos are and why I cant get to them yet. I will post those when I get a chance. It is the absolutely ridiculous notion that just because I dont agree with your view makes anything I say invalid that is so totally bizarre to me. Have I ever told you not to post? Have I ever called you a child abuser or a slut? NO I have NOT. You post what you want, and Ill post what I want, whether you LIKE it or not. Calling someone stupid because they dont agree with your perspective is rude and immature at best. I have never called ANYBODY on here stupid. EVER. That is the difference between maturity and juvenile insults. That is the difference Robert, between you, and I.

[Deborah]

SHH,
It's considered unethical to divulge an ex-teacher's personal information, but it's okay to give out ex-students' names and addresses?
If it didn't come from HLA, how did you come to possess this information about RB?


***Robert, I chose not to post your personal info on there for the reason I stated last week. I know who you are, and where you live, but I dont want to put it on here and already told you why. I am not stupid, dumb, retarded, nor do I have a low IQ.

[Deborah]

SHH, you need to search your soul and ask yourself if it's really about the kids. I imagine that your ex (child support?) keeping his job would be the highest priority for you.

I would imagine that the majority, if not all, of kids ?didn?t want to be there?. So one should discount all the testimonies, even though they all sound familiar? Which ex-employees posting here are you alleging to have been fired, or ?didn?t feel they got fair treatment?? Please be specific or post the URL to messages from Anons who you feel fit that description.

RC came seven years later. Might he have been motivated at all to keep the money he was spending on outside wilderness programs  ?in house? and provide jobs for all his mountain ranger buddies?
The issue about RC has to do with avoiding state regulations, among others. Did he assume that since HLA had gotten by without a license for seven years,  that RC could do the same? Do you consider that to be a demonstration of ?good intentions?, of integrity, and caring about the kids? To avoid state regs and arrogantly lie to a parent? To deny a parents demand that her son be removed from an unlicensed program? And to subject kids to staff that do not possess the state requirements for education and experience? ?Good intentions?? You know what they say about ?good intentions??.

Now, who is exaggerating? Rat hole? Who said that?  Beaten? Haven?t heard that one either.  Imprisoned? Yep, that?s what you call involuntary confinement, although it?s more frequently refered to here as ?incarceration?.. Starving to death? Nope, haven?t heard that either. I have heard numerous valid complaints of kids receiving inadequate calories and denied a ?variety? of healthy foods for very long spans of time. And one 04 grad who complained about the food, ?a lot of it was fried and not enough choices for vegetarians?. Lynn chimed in and claimed she a liar. If you look at my evaluation of the sample weekly menu, in fact she wasn?t lying. Does that demonstrate ?good intentions??
Or, that the headmaster lied to parents when he told them that the HD had approved the limited calorie ?restriction? diet? Why do you think he warned us that our kid might get sick, as in vomit? if they?d been receiving ?normal? meals?

You claimed to have been in the cafeteria about 7 times a year. I would be very surprised if you said that you HAD seen kids ?crying excessively? and ?showing fear?. That?s considered manipulation and is consequenced. They cry at night, when they aren't under the microscope- constant surviellence. I think they learn pretty quickly to keep their emotions to themselves and keep a smile on their face. Did you ever just sit and chat with the kids long enough to establish trust so they could tell you what they really thought and felt? FYI, One can be malnourished without looking like a refugee. We are a nation of undernourished and overweight. (As I recall, your son fits into this category) Poor diet manifests in a variety of ways.  

SHH, we are not in a brainstorming session with HLA here, to come up with suggestions for improving their program. Based on my experience, they were not interested in feedback and ignored every legitimate question I ever asked. I am not unique in that.
I think you could use some sensitivity training. You tell me how you would feel if you called your kids school to question something that a teacher had done, or to question their accreditation or to ask why your child was punished? and no one had the decency to return your calls and totally disregarded your concerns. I imagine you would be raging mad. For a time I sincerely was trying to understand the philosophy behind their methods. Unfortunately, that didn?t come from them. It had to come from professionals outside the program.

What do you suggest that others do with the ?ideas for improvement?? Shall we give them to you to pass on to DrB? In the meantime, I think it is useful for people to share their experiences, those who care to.

[Anonymous]

i didn't see HLA on that list?