G.T. Now

[GregFL]

On 2005-02-02 07:04:00, Anonymous wrote:

"http://www.physiciansnews.com/commentary/298wp.html"

Hey, a quote from your article..just for you...


 
In his 1989 book, Diseasing of America, social psychologist Stanton Peele, Ph.D., argues that AA and for-profit alcohol treatment centers promote the "myth" of alcoholism as a lifelong disease. He contends that the disease concept "excuses alcoholics for their past, present, and future irresponsibility" and points out that most people can overcome addiction on their own. He concludes that the only effective response to alcoholism and other addictions is "to recreate living communities that nurture the human capacity to lead constructive lives."

Surprisingly, Dr. Peele?s view that alcoholism is a personal conduct problem, rather than a disease, seems to be more prevalent among medical practitioners than among the public. A recent Gallop poll found that almost 90 percent of Americans believe that alcoholism is a disease. In contrast, physicians? views of alcoholism were reviewed at an August 1997 conference held by the International Doctors of Alcoholics Anonymous (IDAA). A survey of physicians reported at that conference found that 80 percent of responding doctors perceived alcoholism as simply bad behavior.
 


Thanks for making our point for us.

 :tup:

[Helena Handbasket]

On 2005-02-02 07:38:00, Anonymous wrote:

""So the problem is this..the "Disease" theory of addiction is a merely a fabrication designed to have medical insurance respond to treatment. A side benefit is it absolves all responsiblity off of the compulsive drunk and supports the stepcraft vodoo lie that "you are powerless". It has been told so many times it has become an urban myth, a self perpetuating lie."



And what makes this statement any more credible than the accepted viewpoint that alcoholism is a disease?  Who wrote this?  This is an opinion, and you know what they say about opinions.

If you want to believe the lie...you will believe the lie.

I would have to say that you are all in a big-time minority with your belief, you know fuck the experts, they don't know what they are talking about but we do.  What kind of bullshit is that? "

I just broke out a college textbook.  It's entitled "Principles of Neuropsychopharmacology" - ISBN 0-87893-175-9.  (C) 1997

In Chapter 15 ("Alcohol") it addresses several aspects of the "Disease Model" vs. the "Moral Model" and the "Behavioral Model"

I can't type the entire chapter to you, but the conclusion is:

"It must be empathsized however that no patho-physiological state has yet been CLEARLY AND CONSISTENTLY associated with alcohol abuse.  Moreover, the disease model fails to acknowledge the variey of patterns of alcohol abuse, and places little, if any, importance on environmental factors.  Hence, this model suffers from a number of serious problems.  (Pages 650 -651.)


Edited for incorrect transcription.
_________________
"I was a long time coming
I'll be a long time gone
you've got your whole life to do something
and that's not very long"

- Ani DiFranco[ This Message was edited by: ~-=Sara=-~ on 2005-02-02 07:55 ]

[GregFL]

On 2005-02-02 07:05:00, Anonymous wrote:

"http://www.niaaa.nih.gov/faq/q-a.htm"

Right back to Niaaa's unsigned mission statement FAQ,eh.

We are asking for science, Bozo. Bring it. So far you are just proving our point that it doesn't exist.

Link us to the proof of the "alcohol Gene" and a actual scientific support for the disease model of alcoholism. Using these weak definitions, chocolate or anything you compulse over is  a "disease".

[GregFL]

On 2005-02-02 07:08:00, Anonymous wrote:

"i want to make sure you read the part about "Research Shows"



Q #3:   Is alcoholism inherited?

Research shows that the risk for developing alcoholism does indeed run in families. The genes a person inherits partially explain this pattern, but lifestyle is also a factor. Currently, researchers are working to discover the actual genes that put people at risk for alcoholism. Your friends, the amount of stress in your life, and how readily available alcohol is also are factors that may increase your risk for alcoholism"

Great. Again you prove our point.

"researchers are working to discover"

Read it 4 times, then write it tonight in your moral inventory.

how is this for a statemtent.

"researchers are working to discover the moon is green cheese"


same silly nonsensical statement. It means nothing.

[GregFL]

On 2005-02-02 07:09:00, Anonymous wrote:

"i knew you would find a way to argue facts.  i was asked to provide info and i did.  "

No dippy, you haven't complied at all. In fact, I seriously doubt you are able or intellectually capable of following my simple request.

LINK US TO THE SCIENCE THAT THESE WILD CONCLUSIONS ARE BASED ON....IE:  "THE ALCOHOL GENE" and or "THE SCIENCE BEHIND ALCOHOL AS A DISEASE".

Hey, since alcoholism is a disease and GT "cures them", maybe we can take cancer patients and make them motivate, drink cool-aide, lock em up and make the write moral inventories...AND CURE THEM!

BRILLIANT...the cure all of all diseases...STEPCRAFT!!!!!!

 :silly:

[Helena Handbasket]

Hey, since alcoholism is a disease and GT "cures them", maybe we can take cancer patients and make them motivate, drink cool-aide, lock em up and make the write moral inventories...AND CURE THEM!

That was brilliant, Greg.   :nworthy:

I just got a tip from someone who noticed that in the back of their "Blue Book" (The AA Bible) that an interesting quote appears:

"There is one principle that can keep a man in everlasting ignorance. That is contempt prior to investigation." - Herbert Spencer

[GregFL]

On 2005-02-02 07:38:00, Anonymous wrote:

GREG WROTE
_______________________________
""So the problem is this..the "Disease" theory of addiction is a merely a fabrication designed to have medical insurance respond to treatment. A side benefit is it absolves all responsiblity off of the compulsive drunk and supports the stepcraft vodoo lie that "you are powerless". It has been told so many times it has become an urban myth, a self perpetuating lie."
__________________________________



And what makes this statement any more credible than the accepted viewpoint that alcoholism is a disease?  Who wrote this?  This is an opinion, and you know what they say about opinions.

If you want to believe the lie...you will believe the lie.

I would have to say that you are all in a big-time minority with your belief, you know fuck the experts, they don't know what they are talking about but we do.  What kind of bullshit is that? "

Because genius, you make an assertion "alcoholism is a disease" then...get ready for this groundbreaking revelation....

THE BURDEN OF PROOF IS ON YOU TO BACK IT UP.

Now, I know that is a shock, that people may actually challenge your urban myths, but we have. We are calling bullshit on you. Now, we are telling you this...SHOW US. Don't link us to organizations and government entities repeating the myth, show us THE SCIENCE. the term "DISEASE is an actual term that has a scientific meaning. Show us. Don't expand the meaning of the term, show us how, where and why it is a disease.

Thank you in advance. The check is in the mail.

[Anonymous]

Don't think so

[Anonymous]

http://alcoholism.about.com/od/genetics ... 041215.htm

[Anonymous]

http://alcoholism.about.com/cs/genetics/l/aa990517.htm

http://alcoholism.about.com/cs/alerts/l/blnaa18.htm

http://www.niaaa.nih.gov/publications/aa48.htm

[GregFL]

On 2005-02-02 07:04:00, Anonymous wrote:

"http://www.physiciansnews.com/commentary/298wp.html"

and, surprises of surprises, we find this statement in your "proof"

Based on my experiences working in the addiction field for the past 10 years, I believe ....

what you linked us to was the plea of a stepcraft worker, probably a TC employee, to his colleges to adopt the "disease" theory of addiction, and he only used appeals to emotion to do so, not a shred of science.

Fortunately, according to this article, 80% of doctors refuse to buy the lie. Probably because most doctors have their belief system grounded in science.

[Anonymous]

http://www.jointogether.org/sa/news/sum ... 27,00.html

[GregFL]

On 2005-02-02 08:10:00, Anonymous wrote:

"Don't think so"

Dont you really mean "don't think"?

[Helena Handbasket]

On 2005-02-02 08:12:00, Anonymous wrote:

"http://alcoholism.about.com/od/genetics/a/blacer041215.htm"

Well, at least it's science.  But it's still inconclusive:

"This manuscript provides further evidence that how one responds to alcohol is inherited," said Swift. "However, it should be noted that the increased risk for alcoholism does not mean that someone with the G allele will necessarily become an alcoholic. The development of alcoholism is only partially determined by heredity."

So that makes the phrase "Alcoholism is a disease" inaccurate, no?

[Anonymous]

of course it was Greg, he is just not credible because he doesn't agree with you...asshole