How about some damn ANSWERS.

[Nihilanthic]

Timoclea, I'm recently 20. Dec 8th, FYI.

I got involved in this when I found out it existed. And yeah, I am personally hurt that this exists on this planet, this country, and other human beings do this. About April of 04.

Oh, and OWC, up yours! Its not some issue that I would not go along with being kidnapped. Its your head being completely screwed up thinking kidnapping, regression, extreme distress and EXTENDED captivity is NORMAL and we all have 'issues' to work out.

Your 'treatment' at Desisto turned into a damn religion for you. It should have ended the moment you go out. It shouldnt be your god damn way of life.

I mean jesus christ you don't worship the doctor that helped your mom give birth, or someone who put a bandage on some boo-boo when you were a kid, do you?

The hypothalamus is one of the most important parts of the brain, involved in many kinds of motivation, among other functions.  The hypothalamus controls the "Four F's": 1. fighting;  2. fleeing;  3.feeding; and  4. mating.
-- Psychology professor in neuropsychology intro course

[Anonymous]

Happy Birthday Nih !!
I appreciate your Sagitarian fire and passion.
May it continue to burn bright and strong, illuninating the dark closets of the industry.

[miseducated]

I totally love your focus and intelligence, Nihilanthic. Thanks for taking up our cause. It is expeshly painful for me to read the postings of the brainwashed and/or program abuse posters -- hits too close ya know. so I can't hang around here too much. I feel like the battle is in good hands with the likes of you though, who are able to keep head above water.

[Nihilanthic]

lol, thanks.

I'm not in this for pats on the back, though. I'm here because this is total bullcrap and the authorities are being amazingly apathetic.

I'm someone who ACTUALLY cares about others, not just out to use it as an excuse to make money kidnapping people and reaffirm my own ridiculous ideals about how its okay to kidnap, hold captive, torture and break down CHILDREN as a JOB.

Harmlessly passing your time in the grasslands away;
Only dimly aware of a certain unease in the air.
you better watchout,
there may be dogs about.
I've looked over Jordan, and have seen.
Things are not what they seem.


--Roger Waters 1977

[Perrigaud]

20! That explains a lot. To whoever asked me about the restraining thing: Girls who decided that it was ok to cut on themselves got restrained. Girls who attacked others were restrained. That's all I saw. Oh and girls who started to hit themselves. Well Niles,  you sure did start some hot debate. Did you have any other questions?

[Perrigaud]

The program never made me feel helpless. Please, I never was molested, harmed, harshly disciplined, or such.

[Nihilanthic]

My age doesnt change much, but maybe it explains how hotheaded I am.  :wink:

And, yeah, 'restraining' someone who attacks others or cuts themself... thats never been an issue!

Doing it in a inhumane way to terorrize and torutre someone, even if necessary, and especially as a form of physical and psychological punishment, is the issue here regarding restraint.. So is accountability of it... and as far as I know there is none.

Save our planet; it's the only one with chocolate!

--Andi, domestic goddess

[Perrigaud]

There's a thin line between abuse and for the good. It's challenging 'cause everyone has an opinion. What was acceptable for me may not be for someone else. Naturally beating anyone while they are restrained is not allowable (in my head). By the way I'm 21 so I understand completely about the flare.

[Nihilanthic]

Thin line between abuse and 'for the good' my ass!

Saying in so many words "I dont think it was abusive although someone else might" is just an attempt to make torture based behavior modification 'okay'. Tearing someone apart with terror, brutally enforced submission and conformity, and harshness in general has no intrinsic 'therapy' or good in it at all.

You dont fix a problem with more brutality. Breaking down and reprogramming someones mind, or breaking them like a slave or work animal, is not good, its not okay. You might as well spank or lock up your kid for saying they have a fever.

Yeah, the fever will go away in time and the kid will shut up, but you didnt fix a damn thing. You just got the behavior you wanted.

'Mindrape' (fine, psychologically regressive) seminars are not okay either. Period. Gilcrease and resourcesrealizations can kiss my ass.

You mean to tell me its for ANYONES good to beat or be brutal or harsh on someone? Strictness doesnt do anything except be strict! There's no benefit from treating someone that way unless you mean being trained to suffer without complaint.  

I still havent seen the real therapy from the original question. I'm inclined to think its nonexistant. I see that its advertised as a "pay extra" kind of thing, but thats BALONEY.

All I've gathered so far is these places do nothing more than detain kids brought by parents, or kidnapthem FOR the bastards, keep them captive and in harsh, dominating, uncomfortable, pleasureless environments and force them to do as told, beg to be allowed to do anything, restrained as corporal punishment, and forced into said regressive seminars.

Isnt it funny how you see cameras in prisons, but not in these treatment centers?

The only maxim of a free government ought to be to trust no man living with power to endanger the public liberty.
-- John Adams, (1772)

[Perrigaud]

Actually Niles there are cameras in CCM. I don't know about the other locations. I didn't say that extreme was ok. Damn you're stubborn. You hear what you want to. Or maybe I didn't word it right. What I meant to say was that you could put one kid in the corner for coloring on the furniture and he would understand that it's not ok. Whereas another kid you might have to take away the tv. I didn't say go ahead and beat one sensless and the other not. Common now, don't dramatize everything I say.

[Perrigaud]

If a person goes into these "mind altering" seminars and says they were brainwashed then that person wasn't mentally strong. Brainwash? There's only so much brainwashing a person can do to another. It may last a little bit, but if that person isn't subject to it for years and years they'll eventually snap out of it. I refuse to think that people are that weak. If you personally were to go into these seminars do you think that you are so weak of a person that you would be brainwashed into conforming to their ways? Who ever said that they were the end all? I never did. I still don't say that they are the end all. I don't agree with everything. It's so easy to blame others.  [ This Message was edited by: Perrigaud on 2005-01-03 03:55 ]

[Anonymous]

On 2005-01-03 03:54:00, Perrigaud wrote:

"If a person goes into these "mind altering" seminars and says they were brainwashed then that person wasn't mentally strong. Brainwash? There's only so much brainwashing a person can do to another. It may last a little bit, but if that person isn't subject to it for years and years they'll eventually snap out of it. I refuse to think that people are that weak. If you personally were to go into these seminars do you think that you are so weak of a person that you would be brainwashed into conforming to their ways? Who ever said that they were the end all? I never did. I still don't say that they are the end all. I don't agree with everything. It's so easy to blame others.  [ This Message was edited by: Perrigaud on 2005-01-03 03:55 ]"

Perrigaud,

They break these children down to make them weak. Children who arrive at these places in a normal, healthy state are allowed to leave only when they are broken down and have either accepted the program ideology (= the program is never wrong, I was a terrible person before the program, the program saved my life, etc.) or they are so terrorized and traumatized that they don't dare to say anything critical, for fear of being sent back.

And, yes, people are that weak. Many of them are. You are one of them, Perrigaud. You gave in and graduated the program. This is not your fault, though. It is THEIR fault.

It doesn't take being subjected to it "for years and years" to fall right into it. Just look at the programmed parents. Three days is all it takes.

[Anonymous]

On 2005-01-03 03:48:00, Perrigaud wrote:

"Actually Niles there are cameras in CCM. I don't know about the other locations. I didn't say that extreme was ok. Damn you're stubborn. You hear what you want to. Or maybe I didn't word it right. What I meant to say was that you could put one kid in the corner for coloring on the furniture and he would understand that it's not ok. Whereas another kid you might have to take away the tv. I didn't say go ahead and beat one sensless and the other not. Common now, don't dramatize everything I say. "

While I agree with you that different methods work for different children, I disagree with your implication that this extends to the program, and that some children need to be subjected to life at a WWASP concentration camp in order to "understand" that their behavior is not okay.

And, yes, we've all heard about the cameras. They are installed in the director's office, so that s/he can see what is going on in the OP rooms. Which is totally sick.

[Anonymous]

I don;t think you understand me i was not and still am not a desistoite. I am and have always been my own person. The only thing i got out of my 8 months at desisto was good grades for a year and the fact that i am my own person and no one can tell me what to do if i think it is not right. You see before i went to there i was hanging out with older kids and being infuenced to do things i would not normally do. I mentioned that i screwed up again after leaving desisto, but then at least i was screwing up making my own decisions and not being told to do things. You are so wrong about me. But that what this board is all about DISTRUST. I don't trust you and you don't trust me. The fact that you are 20 and have allot of maturing to do explains allot. The people that say you have insight, are blinded with tunnel vision. You need to live a allot longer before i start seeing you have insight. You did sound like a kid all this time.
The one that cares

[Anonymous]

I believe they only have OP in jamaica now, all the others have switched. All they do in the other schools now is have them sit in a room ith staff and other kids that are in trouble, untill they are ready to go work.They call it intervention room now.No OP unless you go to jamaica and then you still need to really screw up to be in thier.