How about some damn ANSWERS.

[Nihilanthic]

Ok... if all of us want you to pull the kid out.

And the *FACT* is you are in the dark about your childs wellbeing, and its a MYSTERY...

Why are you going to tolerate not knowing just because someone who has something to hide insists on keeping the kid in the program?

They're isolated, unable to contact you without going through them, unable to contact any authorities for help, and physically held captive in there.

If something is going on youre the only person who can find out.

So lets say I'm wrong. Why not go there and prove me wrong?

If the program is great afterall, there wont be any harm in taking a kid out of it anymore than taking a kid out of school.

Hands that help are far better then lips that pray.
--Robert G. Ingersoll, American politician and lecturer

[chi3]

I sincerely want to thank everyone for their time. I am amazed that you all have responded with so much thought. I did as you suggested. I read tons of info at isaccorp, and I am seriously appalled at what I found. How in the world can this be so unregulated?? My nail salon has more regulations than this! I called the ATTY Gen. office, stated board of ed., child protective services, etc. they couldn't tell me anything other than it is not accredited in the state, credits do not transfer, and that their was no open litigation concerning the school. I want to know, if I do go up to get her out, how do I do it? Will they give me a hard time? My husband IS concerned, he looked into a REAL boarding school yesterday, but he says until we have a plan in motion on where to take her, he doesn't believe she is in imminent danger. He also wants to know how come he has met and heard of so many kids that have been through the program that are doing well. I countered that some people do well when brainwashed. I believe that is so. I am just not sure if that is a good idea for my daughter. I know I am not going to be. My daughter picks the worst people to be friends with. She was very involved with the gothic group, the gay group, the kids with serious issues, who are very confused. She says she likes people with more problems than she, so that she can focus on theirs, not hers. Unfortunately she gets too involved and they pull her down. For the one who cares: I have no problem with you doing your job. I still say that lies with the PARENTS. I just hope that if you do this job you are not one of the few that I know who have been abusive to children. That is outrageous that these companies hire people who have arrest records, for any reason! Some for  DUI and some for previous child abuse. I hope if you do this job, you do it with a conscience!!! I cannot tell you how much I wanted to physically harm these damn people who have abused these children with no recourse. SICK,SICK,SICK! May you all roast in HELL!

[Anonymous]

On 2005-01-14 01:04:00, chi3 wrote:

"I sincerely want to thank everyone for their time. I am amazed that you all have responded with so much thought. I did as you suggested. I read tons of info at isaccorp, and I am seriously appalled at what I found. How in the world can this be so unregulated?? My nail salon has more regulations than this! I called the ATTY Gen. office, stated board of ed., child protective services, etc. they couldn't tell me anything other than it is not accredited in the state, credits do not transfer, and that their was no open litigation concerning the school. I want to know, if I do go up to get her out, how do I do it? Will they give me a hard time? My husband IS concerned, he looked into a REAL boarding school yesterday, but he says until we have a plan in motion on where to take her, he doesn't believe she is in imminent danger. He also wants to know how come he has met and heard of so many kids that have been through the program that are doing well. I countered that some people do well when brainwashed. I believe that is so. I am just not sure if that is a good idea for my daughter. I know I am not going to be. My daughter picks the worst people to be friends with. She was very involved with the gothic group, the gay group, the kids with serious issues, who are very confused. She says she likes people with more problems than she, so that she can focus on theirs, not hers. Unfortunately she gets too involved and they pull her down. For the one who cares: I have no problem with you doing your job. I still say that lies with the PARENTS. I just hope that if you do this job you are not one of the few that I know who have been abusive to children. That is outrageous that these companies hire people who have arrest records, for any reason! Some for  DUI and some for previous child abuse. I hope if you do this job, you do it with a conscience!!! I cannot tell you how much I wanted to physically harm these damn people who have abused these children with no recourse. SICK,SICK,SICK! May you all roast in HELL!"

Chi3,

First of all, I'm glad you read what's on that site-- as a parents, it's important that you have as much information as possible about the people who are now caring for your child on a day-to-day basis. And WWASP will ONLY tell you what they want to tell you-- they won't tell you about the abuse, the deprivation, the way they manipulate parents into keeping their child in the program for just another week, just another month, just another year. "Yeah, we're not accredited, there's an investigation against our facility, there have been charges of abuse, but LOOK!! your child is doing GREAT here! wouldn't you want to keep her a little while longer?? You know she will be DEAD OR IN JAIL (WWASP's favorite phrase) without us! You wouldn't want your child to DIE, would you???"

Please, please, get your daughter out of there. Get her out and take her to see a psychologist who will evaluate her properly and may be able to point you to a real treatment program. There are many options out there.

I wish you and your daughter the best of luck.

[chi3]

i am working on that as we speak. i am not worried about the money, they can keep the shit. i want my kid back! i need to know if anyone has had trouble getting their kid out. do i need to take the police with me? child protective services? i have full legal custody.

[Perrigaud]

All the girls that were pulled from the program that I knew simply had parents that wouldn't listen to the facility and it's faculty. If you want to get her out be prepared to listen to a bunch of disagreements.

[Anonymous]

Chi, you do have to look at what your husband asked. Why are there so many kids and parents giving the program so much praise. If you did not notice there are very few kids and parents who went to wwasp who are complaing and that is out of thousands of kids that have been through wwasp programs. It is most likely kids that rebelled at the school and never let them selves get anything out of it. The odds are for the wwasp program if you look at how many perople praise it and how many people don't. I have never been to CSA, but i have been to other wwasp schools and have seen a very strict school, but nothing else. I go there at all times of day and have been taken around without anyone alerting the other staff that i am coming throgh. I care deeply about kids and you can be sure if i ever saw any abuse taking place, i would be fighting to close them also. I have about 3 years experince now dropping kids at wwasp schools and other programs. I don;t really know if a regular boarding school is right for your daughter, but the parent knows what's best for thier child. A regular baording school has all the problems of a regular school. Drugs, cutting, fights ect... Go with your gut.
The one who cares

[Anonymous]

On 2005-01-14 03:44:00, chi3 wrote:

"i am working on that as we speak. i am not worried about the money, they can keep the shit. i want my kid back! i need to know if anyone has had trouble getting their kid out. do i need to take the police with me? child protective services? i have full legal custody."

Chi3,

You, as a parent, can come and get your daughter out at any time. They may try to argue with you and talk you out of it, but be firm and get out of there quickly.

If you need more advice, contact ISAC-- they have experience with getting kids out of these places. If you feel you need someone to come with you, ISAC may be able to provide that, also.

Good luck.

[Anonymous]

Yes chi, you can get your child anytime, but the school will try to convince you not to, but that is all they will do. They can not stop you from taking your daughter. Just remeber the opposite is happening here they will stop at nothing to get you to take your kid, and if you do they will look at it as a victory for this site and the ones who are only acting on heresay.
The one who cares

[Timoclea]

Stop at nothing?

Please.

I'm a professional writer.  Not to be immodest, but my book hit the NYT.  Did I rake up scads of horror stories and deluge her?  Did I post the link to the Hartford Courant's expose on restraint deaths?  I could have been a *lot* more alarmist.

Did I even say her kid *didn't* need residential care?

No.

If I was willing to be unethical, I could have been a lot more persuasive.  But I don't do that.

Personally, I just tried to get her to get a professional second opinion and make reasonable checks on her kid's welfare and decide from there.  And to make reasonable checks on WWASPS history.

Of course there are lots of kids who went through WWASPS that are doing well.  But that's not due to WWASPS.  Most teenagers who had problems who *didn't* go to WWASPS are *also* doing well.  Children grow up.  The credit for that goes to mother nature, not WWASPS.

What's it to you if this child gets a professional second opinion and a careful, appropriate selection of treatment plans from licensed providers, and goes to an accredited school?

Nobody here is trying to talk this mom into ignoring her kid's needs and getting her *no* care and education.  We're just trying to get her to up the qualifications of the providers and have a better chance of matching the care to the kid.

If you care so much, why the heck would you have a problem with a kid getting better care?

Timoclea

You never see animals going through the absurd and often horrible fooleries of magic and religion. Only man behaves with such gratuitous folly. It is the price he has to pay for being intelligent but not, as yet, intelligent enough.
--Aldous Huxley, author

[Anonymous]

Maybe not u tim,OWC

[Anonymous]

On 2005-01-14 06:53:00, Anonymous wrote:

" Just remeber the opposite is happening here they will stop at nothing to get you to take your kid, and if you do they will look at it as a victory for this site and the ones who are only acting on heresay.

The one who cares"

One Who Kidnaps...Most of us here do NOT look at it that way.  There is no our side/your side.  That's YOUR mentality.

Chi, you do what you think is right.  People have given various opinions here, all valid.  If you do decide to make an impromptu check on your daughter or inquire about pulling her out, pay very close attention to how they respond.  I'm not talking about just trying to talk you out of it.  Of course they're going to do that.  Be aware of the tactics they use in doing so.  

It sounds to me like your gut has been telling you something from the start.  You're doing the smart thing, investigating further.  I've always told my kids that the MOST important lesson I could ever teach them is to TRUST YOUR GUT.  It's never failed me when I've really, really listened to it.

[Anonymous]

MOST important lesson I could ever teach them is to TRUST YOUR GUT. It's never failed me when I've really, really listened to it.

In WWASPspeak your gut is called your "chattering pig" and you are supposed to ignore it.

[Anonymous]

I am just stating how i feel, it feels like i'm on one side and most of you on the other. The people on this board have made me feel this way. I am on the childs side, but know there are parents that can not go on and keep trying things that don't work for thier kid. Again most of these parents have tried everything they can and calling me is a last resort. I have never heard the term chattering pig before, but that looks like something i don't agree with. One's Gut is usually right. It's kind of hard not to feel on one side with all the comments that have been said to me here. But that is everyones right to speak thier mind.The one who cares

[Anonymous]

Yes, I agree.  We are on two very opposite sides.  My point, which you seem to have missed.....again (you have a real habit of doing that), was that most of the people here are not going to see this as a victory for "this site".  I'll certainly be glad that one less kid will have to go through the humiliation, degredation, mindrape, yes....absolutely.  But a victory for this site???   :roll: That's not what we're about.  I'm aware that that's precisely how YOU view us, but it's not reality.

[Anonymous]

***I am just stating how i feel, it feels like i'm on one side and most of you on the other.

REALITY CHECK: You do realize where you are, don't you? This is a 'survivor' site. Did you expect something different? You might feel alot less frustrated if you accepted that.

***The people on this board have made me feel this way.

Nope, no one can 'make' you feel anything, short of physically hurting you.  

***I am on the childs side,

In case you haven't noticed, that is precisely how we advocates think of ourselves. It's a difference of perspective and opinion. We don't do this work for our health. Most of us know beyond a shadow of a doubt that there are options that the parents haven't tried. Options that are much more humane and respectful to the child.