How about some damn ANSWERS.

[Anonymous]

My daughter picks the worst people to be friends with. She was very involved with the gothic group, the gay group, the kids with serious issues, who are very confused. She says she likes people with more problems than she, so that she can focus on theirs, not hers. Unfortunately she gets too involved and they pull her down.


OK,  I can see how the "gothic" look may be upsetting.  But, speaking from experience, all the black clothes, and wild makeup, and brooding thoughts cover personalities of a rare sweetness and sensitivity.

Spooky, yeah, but how many of the 4 decades plus people who read this board were fans of  "Dark Shadows"?

For some thoughful, well researched, and footnoted information on Goth:

http://www.religioustolerance.org/goth.htm

[Antigen]

OWC, I know this is going to be very hard for you to wrap your mind around, but I've been pretty much where you are. Not exactly. I did come to my senses as an adult. But there was a time when I would have gone out w/ the goon squad to track down a runnaway, tackled them to the ground and dragged them back kicking and screaming into group at their parents' request. And I would not have perceived any abuse whatever. In fact, when I did split one time and the goon squad (Marti, Robin and I don't remember who else) showed up at my door, I didn't think they were doing anything wrong. I simply determined to outsmart or outrun them. No hard feelings at all.

I believe you when you say that you've never wittnessed any abuse in these programs. In fact, I think you could take part in one of those extended seminars where they focus the entire group's attention on one little girl's childhood rape experience, yell at her, call her names and break her down for hours and you still would not perceive any abuse. I just don't have all that much faith in your perceptions.

"The FARC is part of the history of Colombia and a historical phenomenon", (President Pastrana) says, "and they must be treated as Colombians". ... They come and ask for bread [aid from Washington], and you give them stones.

Robert White is a former American ambassador to Paraguay and El Salvador, and former No. 2 man with the U.S. Embassy in Bogota, is president of the Centre for International Policy in Washington D.C.
http://narconews.com/' target='_new'>Robert White

[chi3]

i don't think i explained it well when i said the gay/goth group. i was all into the whole punk rock thing. no biggie. just a clothing decision in my school. this isn't just clothes. it is a way of life. us against them, whatever it takes. they are very violent to themselves and others. lots of cutters, suicides. they also shove the sexuality thing down everyone's throat by actively doing things to provoke conflict. just 3 days ago one of the goths attacked a boy and a teacher out of the blue threatening to cut off their heads. it took 2 coaches to subdue him then the cops came and arresred him. this is supposedly a very "good" school. but their is sex going on in the bathrooms after school, drugs, etc. the gay group openly display affection and the guys shave their legs in boys showers just to piss off people. these are the people my daughter has as friends. for the one who cares: i appreciate your concern, but i came here for all thoughs good and bad. i can decipher how i feel when i get them. i don't make decisions that quickly nor just on people's word. if i had of made the school decision instead of leaving it up to my husband, she wouldn't be there. i would never left her somewhere that i couldn't see my daughter much less not even spend the holidays with her. this was very traumatic for her and the whole family. never again.

[chi3]

sorry about spelling, syntax, etc. very tired.

[Antigen]

On 2005-01-14 13:34:00, chi3 wrote:

"sorry about spelling, syntax, etc. very tired."

More than understandable.

"...In general, it's just an overall sign in America that there doesn't seem to be as much respect for authority figures, and that's a bad trend. It just strikes me that people can say whatever they want to and get away with it, and that's not good."

--But David Murrell, exec. dir. of the Florida Police Benevolent Association

[Nihilanthic]

Did you see this stuff with your own eyes?

I hung out with the people who dressed 'weird' and my tiny highschool's one gay guy who as actually out of the closet, and they were never like that. James was rather flamboyant but otherwise he was just a person.

The "goths" would wax nihilistically sometimes and smoked cigarettes but never started anything with anyone. They'd butt heads with this one guy who wore a suit and had a buzzcut (I swear to god it was cheney's mini-me) over religious stuff, but it was only verbal.

I guess in a VERY large school you might see gang formation but I have a hard time believing that goths/gays or whatever are inherantly violent.

It (the Bible) is full of interest. It has noble poetry in it; and some clever fables; and some blood-drenched history; and some good morals; and a wealth of obscenity; and upwards of a thousand lies.
--Samuel Clemens "Mark Twain", American author and humorist

[Janet]

Perri, when you were at Cross Creek did you know Sabrina Graham?   If so, let me e-mail you.
       Janet[ This Message was edited by: Janet on 2005-01-15 16:11 ]

[Perrigaud]

I think so. Go ahead my e-mail is posted if not it's perrigaud@hotmail.com

[Antigen]

Nihl, I wonder about that too. Some things are different now than they were 20 years ago. For one thing, it wasn't cool to be gay back then. A LOT of teenagers around here are gay, or think they are or play at it or something. I think it's mostly just a fun way to push the grown up's buttons w/o doing anyone any real harm, yah know?

But I don't have any reason to think kids taday are any meaner or more foolish than when I was a kid. It's just... fashion, really. I could have made both of my parents and the Bible teacher go apapleptic by dying my hair purple or sticking a steel bar through my nose. That would be effective w/ most adults these days. After all, some of us dressed just like the people on Saturday Night Fever for at least a week in the very late `70's. We may not like to admit it, but we remember and so purple hair and piercings are not really that compelling.

But homosexuality!!! Arrrrrggghhhh!!!  :rofl:

So I wonder if it's really as bad as what we're hearing or if it's just maybe a little exagerated.

Marijuana in its natural form is one of the safest therapeutically active substances known to man. By  any measure of rational analysis marijuana can be safely used within the supervised routine of medical care.
http://www.masscann.org/quotes.htm' target='_new'>Administrative Law Judge, Francis Young,  DOJ/DEA

[Nihilanthic]

Chi3 - did you pull your kid out yet?

Also... why not just take her home, listen to what she has to say - and just raise her yourselves?

I'm not trying to step on your toes here but.... I'm only 20, I remember what its like being a kid, and I can vouch for one fact - NO kid I know who has involved, closely bonded with parents has not turned out okay.

She needs to get OUT of the environment of being locked up and told what to do and given room to breathe and stretch out and be free again.

A student burst into his office.  "Professor Stigler, I don't believe I deserve this F you've given me."  To which Stigler replied, "I agree, but unfortunately it is the lowest grade the University will allow me to award."
--Professor Stigler

[chi3]

I don't mind all the weird dressing, hair colors, make-up, etc. I don't like all the blow-jobs on the school bus,(boys, girls, whatever combination), sex in the bandroom, sex in the bathrooms, sex in the big plastic tubes on the playgrounds, sex in public dressing rooms, the movies, etc. Add to this drugs, and alcohol, cutting, boy-girl sleepovers that parents know about, throw in a little satanism, and there you have it....public high school, 2005. Maybe I am overreacting, but this is just too much for me. Maybe some of you can deal with it, and the kids who see absolutely nothing wrong with any of it, but I can't. This was ruining my life, my husband's, and especially her brother who is a couple of years younger. We really didn't know what to do. Still don't, really, but couldn't live worrying every minute of every day what she might get involved with next.

P.S. Also, add the running away adventures, and boys breaking in our house in the middle of the night.

[Nihilanthic]

Ma'am, I JUST (well, practically speaking) came out of highschool. Last summer.

That stuff is mostly exaggeration! Wanna know what Statanism is? Something MADE. UP. By freethinkers and athiests to scare conservative christians and as a model for their philosophy (the self comes first, but usually they include family and friends as 'allies')

Drugs and alcohol are not as rampant as theyd lead you to think. Same for the BJs on the bus (come on, imagine hitting a bump and what would happen when teeth meet genitalia, do the math) and... sex in a dressing room? You know how much commotion that would make? Maybe some teachers AFTER SCHOOL in the lounge, but students in a dressing room? come on!

ACTUAL rates of crime have been going down for some time. Like, for the past 10 years at least. I'm not quite sure.

Shes probalby just acting out and dressing weirdly . I *SERIOUSLY* doubt shes one of maybe 200 people in the whole country who have tha life style for REAL and not just the image of it.

Now, the boys breaking into your house... call the cops on their ass. Running away adventures? Sounds like you need to work on your bond with her.

I'm not out here to put you down, but if you really spent time with her and made REAL, TRUE, LASTING GENUINE BOND, not a hierarchy of "I AM PARENT YOU ARE CHILD" - you'd do a TON of good.

Busting her out of that damned program should at least give her that reason to start trusting you now.

BTW - I have AIM, MSN, and YIM. You have any of these? I also have a cellphone but I dont want to give my # out on the forum.

Marijuana clearly has medicinal value.
 Thousands of seriously ill Americans have
 been able to determine that for themselves,
 albeit illegally. Like my own family, these
 individuals did not wish to break the law but
 they had no choice.
 

--Lyn Nofziger, former deputy chairman of the Republican National Committee

[jjpinks]

You sound like my mother did 20 years ago!  :smile:

[Anonymous]

I don't know but the last kid that i transported who was 15 pointed to a gas station where he said he had sex with his girlfriend in the bathroom. The girl was 14. I think that is a shame and also disgusting in a gas station bathroom. I think Chi is not far off. Girls don't think a blow job is sex anymore, it's just like another base for them. The one who cares

[Anonymous]

Ever heard of kids exaggerating their sexual experiences (especially a male adolescent to an older male) to make themselves appear "cool" and more mature than they actaully are???  Jeeez, that's how most of the girls with a reputation of 'slut' got[/b] that reputation in the first place.