Author Topic: Ethical Approaches to Forum for Survivors  (Read 9249 times)

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Offline animals all of us

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« on: August 15, 2004, 03:42:00 PM »
[ This Message was edited by: animals all of us on 2004-09-09 20:31 ]
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Offline GregFL

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« Reply #1 on: August 15, 2004, 04:05:00 PM »
Free speech is good, even obnoxious free speech.  However when you say it you own it and frankly many of the things said around here are childish, without crediblity, and/or just plain idiotic.

Some of the things spewed around here I would be very ashamed of myself if I said.  Integrity, respect and honor should guide what you have to say, and often in absense of applying those things, you should say nothing.

This forum started as a place for people to come share ideas and explore what really happened to them. I was fortunate to be one of those people who found Ginger's forum long before it was fornits. Over the years it has morphed into a place where many many people just seem to want to insult and degrade not only others but themselves.  That is a shame.

That being said, this still is a cool place. Too bad uncool people come here  but that is the price we pay for a free and open forum.
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Offline animals all of us

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« Reply #2 on: August 15, 2004, 04:36:00 PM »
I will count myself among the COOL people in the post you wrote, G.

You are a good writer with a level head.  But yeah, I think we're all in agreement here that this forum could use some editing skills.

Another thing that stuck with me in what GW said is that journalism is not easy.  So many people trying to be journalists, I am at fault here too, and it winds up becoming an issue of pride or prejudice.  I wrote a code of ethics a few weeks back regarding some of the issues you mentioned: integrity, respect, and honor.  

I see some people, I'm not faultless here, just want to make the score card even when it comes to finding justice for themselves.  I mentioned it because I am thinking this forum is not really the place to discuss issues about finding one's enemies and rendering them equal or whatever.  

At the very least I think I would agree that those sorts of things should be left unsaid.  And inasmuch as keeping justifiable emotions quiet goes, I believe that others should refrain from getting others hopes up about information ("Breaking News, Standby").  Both of these 'different' issues are not separated and merely irradicated, nor are any other perceived issues when it comes to the worldly issues of child abuse.  Its always going to be a sensitive issue no matter how one puts it.  And noone is perfect.  Although I really don't think that GW looks like a skinny crack whore like she says she does, some people have a worse image of themselves than others, we can all can do something to push along the efforts of these ethics we're discussing.
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Offline Antigen

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« Reply #3 on: August 15, 2004, 05:28:00 PM »
Quote
On 2004-08-15 13:36:00, animals all of us wrote:

Although I really don't think that GW looks like a skinny crack whore like she says she does, some people have a worse image of themselves than others,


LOL! Thanks very much.

 

"The Libertarian Party is a coalition of those who hold dear the economic freedoms championed by conservatives, yet abandoned by Republicans, and the civil freedoms championed by liberals, yet abandoned by Democrats."


--Rick Root

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Offline Antigen

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« Reply #4 on: August 15, 2004, 06:00:00 PM »
Quote
On 2004-08-15 13:05:00, GregFL wrote:

 Free speech is good, even obnoxious free speech. However when you say it you own it and frankly many of the things said around here are childish, without crediblity, and/or just plain idiotic.


Buddy, you always get right down to the salient core of things.

"when you say it you own"

There are two sides to this. One, you cover very well, the personal side. Like it or not, accept it or not, doesn't matter, we all build reputations for ourselves. More like we all provide the raw material w/ which others construct our reputations for us. The process is somewhat out of our control, but not entirely.

Some of the more hostile, inflamatory stuff that goes on here, I wish it wouldn't. I hate to see ppl hurt each other's feelings, get all paranoid and angry, etc., especially when the cause for all the angst turns out to be untrue. As a friend, or even just as a fellow Earthling, I'd suggest that no one should ever bother getting worked up and unhappy over what you think might be someone else's motives for doing somthing. You just can't know that, ya know? Or, to be a little more sardonic and cliche, never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by ignorance.

But if it happens, it happens, I can't tell people what to do or how to think. Not only would it be futile for me to try, but often times I'm wrong anyway. Hell, probably at least half of my incentive for hosting these forums is to learn something. And you never learn anything by shutting people down or controling the discussion.  

There's another side to it, though. And, much as it FUCKS up my weekend, I have to think about it just lately. That's the legal side.

While I'm not responsible for what people say here as hosting provider, I am responsible as a citizen and responsible human being if I wittness an actual crime. So whoever's suggesting murder, encouraging suicide or making other violent threats, I want you to understand that you're really not all that anonymous. I'm not in any great hurry to make a federal case out of any of this. Frankly, I think it's just bullshit intended to start a brawl, piss people off, divert attention or some other reason that's entirely your own business. But understand that if I'm presented w/ a subpoena or other legally compelling document, I will certainly turn over requested logging info. This has nothing to do w/ the policy I set for the forums; it's not just a good idea, it's the law.



Climb the mountains and get their good tidings. Nature's peace will flow into you as sunshine flows into trees. The winds will blow their own freshness into you, and the storms their energy, while cares will drop off like autumn leaves. When we try to pick out anything by itself, we find it hitched to everything else in the Universe.  -- My First Summer in the Sierra , 1911, page 110.
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0395353513/' target='_new'> John Muir

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Offline GregFL

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« Reply #5 on: August 15, 2004, 11:56:00 PM »
Right Ginger, and do these people really truly think they are anon to the moderators?  Gawd how naive can someone be.


And I agree with you about the guy posting threats. It reminds me of a guy one day, driving real fast behind me in a huge cadillac. He kept honking and flipping me off, pulling up and yelling "i'm gonna kick your ass". I did my best to ignore him but truth be told he irritated me. We soon were seperated by traffic but By happenstance we ended up both parking near each other in the mall, he got out and shedded with the relative anonomity of his car, his grandeour faded and he turned out to be a short, skinny balding sissy-man. I said nothing but shook my head in disbelief as he sheepishly walked by me, eyes diverted down, shoulders drawn in...

This forum is like that big cadillac..you think it provides you protection but it does not. You are only anonymous by the grace of the administrator here. It is a privilidge granted to encourage the free flow of ideas.  If you are ashamed to say something under your screen name,you really shouldn't say it anon. There are times when saying something anon is appropriate, but threats and insultive degrading comments said anon is just the tool of a coward.






[ This Message was edited by: GregFL on 2004-08-15 21:03 ]
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Offline animals all of us

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« Reply #6 on: August 16, 2004, 01:08:00 AM »
Well said, G.
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Offline Antigen

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« Reply #7 on: August 16, 2004, 12:20:00 PM »
Thank you  ::cheers::

I am sick unto death of obscure English towns that exist seemingly for the sole accommodation of these so-called limerick writers -- and even sicker of their residents, all of whom suffer from physical deformities and spend their time dismembering relatives at fancy dress balls.
--Editor of the Limerick Times
(Limerick, Ireland)

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Offline TimeBomb

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« Reply #8 on: August 16, 2004, 01:02:00 PM »
The right to anonymous speech is one of the cornerstones of freedom. Unfortunately, legal protection for this is quickly eroding. The act of obtaining identity information through the use of subpoenas can be, and is often abused. Also, quite a few ISP's and web site administrators are overly cooperative, and will give up information when they are not legally required to do so. EFF has some info on a few such cases. http://www.eff.org/Privacy/Anonymity/

With a little effort, you can increase your anonymitiy significantly. Using anonymizing proxies and/or anonymous remailers can put another layer of protection between you and the Police State, or those who cooperate with them. This site is a good starting point to learn how to be truly anonymous: http://www.stayinvisible.com/index.pl
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ick, tick.

Offline Antigen

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« Reply #9 on: August 16, 2004, 01:19:00 PM »
I agree with you. So far, I've never been succesfully compelled to give over logging info. And the info I have on the posts we're talking about wouldn't do anyone much good w/o some serious intel muscle anyway because they do use a foreign proxy.

But what I'm talking about here is credible death threats. Not just the garden variety "Yeah? Well come to Chitown and say that to my face!" kind of trolls. I'm talking about months long rants making a case to kill someone, culminating in direct instructions to do so.

If whoever's doing that is just kidding or blowing off steam, I want them to know that it's getting unfunny. People are getting scared and they should drop it before it gets to be, quite litterally, a federal case.

If they're not kidding, then they are probably kidding themselves if they think they'll get away with something. It's out of my hands at a certain point. I have yet to find out firsthand where that point lies and really am not eager to go there.

That's all.

In all history, there is no instance of a country having benefited from prolonged warfare. Only one who knows the disastrous effects of a long war can realize the supreme importance of rapidity in bringing it to a close. It is only one who is thoroughly acquainted with the evils of war who can thoroughly understand the profitable way of carrying it on.
--Sun Tzu (author of The Art of War

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Offline TimeBomb

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« Reply #10 on: August 16, 2004, 02:44:00 PM »
How do you know it hasn't already crossed the line? What makes you think you would even know if they were investigating the death threats? It's not a civil matter. They really don't *need* your permission to look at your logs, or monitor your traffic, or anyone else's for that matter.
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ick, tick.

Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #11 on: August 16, 2004, 08:47:00 PM »
FUCK
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Offline Antigen

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« Reply #12 on: August 16, 2004, 09:06:00 PM »
TimeBomb, this is very, very true. Just one more reason to remind ppl to think about what they're saying. The modern day enabling act probably will not stand a decent constitutional challenge. But a decent challenge has to be based on a case where the defendant is clearly in the right.

Government exists to protect us from each other. Where government has gone beyond its limits is in deciding to protect us from ourselves

--Ronald Reagan

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Offline animals all of us

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« Reply #13 on: August 16, 2004, 09:28:00 PM »
I was gonna post something or whatever, but there is nothing to say.
I don't find anyone here guiltless.
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Offline Froderik

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« Reply #14 on: August 16, 2004, 11:26:00 PM »
Quote
This forum is like that big cadillac..you think it provides you protection but it does not. You are only anonymous by the grace of the administrator here. It is a privilidge granted to encourage the free flow of ideas. If you are ashamed to say something under your screen name,you really shouldn't say it anon. There are times when saying something anon is appropriate, but threats and insultive degrading comments said anon is just the tool of a coward.

Very well said, Greg.
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