What is CEDU's contribution to your current situation?

[shanlea]

Various posters have shared that they have suffered PTSD years and years after CEDU.  Even posters who are "successful" in many areas say that CEDU has done serious harm to their relationships and has affected them in ways that still impact them today.

What I am trying to discern is how? How specifically has it affected you guys? How does the PTSD affect you and how do you trace it to CEDU?

I AM DEFINITELY NOT UNDERMINING ANYONE'S EXPERIENCE AT ALL.  I have been very forthcoming about what I think of CEDU.  I'm just trying to make sense of CEDU's impact on my life better and also other earlier events in my life.  Sometimes people articulate exactly what I'm feeling but didn't know how to express.

I know that when I split CEDU I was totally unprepared for the real world because I still thought in terms of the black and white rules, bans, and lingo of CEDU.  I was trying to "live in agreement" even though I split to get away from it.  I had a hard time with friends expecting them to be totally honest and living in accordance to CEDU's arbitarary set of values. All of this was TOTALLY unconscious.  Anyway, that is one example.

[Anonymous]

My friends keep me sane. I spend good time with them and feel comfortable with them, but we just don't talk about things. I would like to have a "CEDU friend" that acts normal as well, but oh well. They're good people and good friends, which matters.

[NivekOgre]

What I am trying to discern is how? How specifically has it affected you guys? How does the PTSD affect you and how do you trace it to CEDU?

6 years in and out of psych wards.

[Anonymous]

But how do you know it's from CEDU? Again, I am definitely NOT defending the school.  I'm wondering if you already had psych issues that the school either couldn't help or made worse b/c of its lack of qualifications and harmful techniques. And because the root cause is never dealt with.

[Antigen]

On 2004-08-02 09:39:00, Anonymous wrote:

"But how do you know it's from CEDU?

I think it's probably just about impossible to answer that question as regards any one individual. I know plenty of people who struggle with it, with or without professional help, for years and never get a difinitive answer.

But if you look at a large population, you can see a pattern.

First, what common characteristics do the people who enter these Synanon based programs have in common. Some are heavy drug users, some are not. Some tend to be violent or angry, but many do not. Some have been in trouble w/ the law, been permiscuous, etc. but others have not. Just look at the "signs" of [fill in your preferred dx here] that each program uses in their promotional material.

Here's CEDU's http://www.cedu2.com/center/

Change of friends? Oh My! No, dear GOD, PLEASE don't tell me my teenage kid is making new friends! That's just tooooo scary!!!

Change in fashion preferences? Trying out new kinds of music?

You get the idea. The intake criteria describes your text-book, typical, average, Joe Normal teenager.

The difference between these teenagers and the rest of the teenage population is only that their parents and/or the juvenile courts of the jurisdictions in which they live have bought into the Program's marketing plan. That's the only consistant comonality that I know of.

So then, all you have to do to determine which after effects are likely attributable to the Program is to compare the general population w/ Program vets. Does everyone else have recurring nightmares about some traumatic event in their teen years? I've never heard of such a thing. I think just about everyone's had at least one nightmare where they're naked in front of their school classmates and profoundly embarrassed, but that's about as bad as it gets. What about rage problems? How about families of origin scattering like pool balls? Chronic, sometimes debilitating depression? Sucicidal tendencies? Confrontation issues?

Not that Program vets are the ONLY people to have these kinds of challenging issues throughout life. God knows there are a lot of people who do. Otherwise, there would be no studies or interest in these topics and terms like PTSD would not exist. But I'm pretty sure we have more than our fair share.


 

I have found that the best way to give advice to your children is to find out what they want and then advise them to do it

--Harry S. Truman

[Anonymous]

Thanks for the post, Ginger...that is what I'm trying to get at.

I'm just trying to understand.  Objectively speaking, had I never attended the program, I would probably think it was a viable option.  I mean the literature looks promising; now I know that it is all misleading. That is why I want more people to understand how inportant it is to do deeper research and look beneath the surface. I know for a fact my father, at least, would never have sent me there had he had known what the "therapy" consisted of...

I think one of the worst aspects of the school is that it undermines the parent-child relationship (permanently)because the staff consistently paints the child as "manipulative" when sincere grievances are aired.  Thus, the parents, who have restricted and monitored contact with the child is fed this load of BS that their kid is dishonest in order to keep the parent invested.

It seemed to me that a lot of kids at CEDU were just regular teenagers who ended uyp buying the lie about themselves.

But what about kids who are really out of control? How do we help them?

[Antigen]

On 2004-08-02 11:36:00, Anonymous wrote:

But what about kids who are really out of control? How do we help them?

One at a time and by restricting our efforts to those kids who we know personally.

One of the more difficult issues involved in the troubled parent industry, imo, is determining whether the kid in question is really out of control or in need of any kind of intervention to begin with.

But that's herasy in today's culture. For various and complex reasons, having nothing to do w/ "kids taday" (who are essentially no different from kids in any other day) our society is scared to death of teenagers. We view them as criminals by default, as a problem needing to be solved. That has to change.

So, my short, smart assed answer to the question "how can we help the kids who need it" would be that we quit helping so much.

If All it takes is an infinite number of monkeys with type writers, then how come there's no Shakespeare coming out of AOL?
-- Anonymous

[former CEDU therapist]

I am glad you brought this up. There are options and programs that can help. Some kids are on a terrible road to self destruction. Some kids end up dead at home.

I would start with a therapist - marriage and family, social worker, or psychologist - who specializes in adolescence. Forget about your insurance. Find the best.

Do not ask your family doctor for a referral. They do now know. Do not inquire with your local county behavioral health department. The person whom you get on the phone may or may not know, and how can you tell? Plus, they can't give you the inside scoop even if they do know it, because of legal implications.

Call the nearest major university - the one closest to you. State universities are good, although there are many good private ones. However, how will you know if it's a good private school when it comes to psychology?

Also, I would recommend calling the American Psychological Association. Their numbers:
(800) 374-2721 or (202) 336-5500

Tell them you want a referral for a psychologist who specializes in adolescent development. There are several divisions within APA that are applicable. Do your homework. Call the therapists and ask them:

1)What do you consider your area of specialization?
2)What journals do you read regularly?
3)What professional associations do you belong to?
4)Do you have experience with _____________________? (problem)
5)Have you had your own therapy?
6)What do you consider to be your strengths as a therapist?

Do not hesitate to ask these questions. If the psychologist is weird about any of them, thank him for his time and say ?goodby.?

Hope this helps!

But what about kids who are really out of control? How do we help them?

[Deborah]

Here?s how the ?experts? describe ?PTSD?.
http://www.mentalhelp.net/poc/center_index.php?id=109
A good article:
http://www.burnsurvivorsttw.org/articles/ptsd1.html

?Symptoms? vary, but what all have in common is a precipitating traumatic event. What people experience as ?traumatic? also varies. While one person may be able to shake off a particular event and appear to function well, another may be seriously traumatized. Take 911 for instance. For some it was a devastating event- unable to sleep or had recurring nightmares, unable to enter tall buildings or go on elevators, etc. While others had concerns and legitimate fears, but it didn?t effect their functioning. For some kids, being abducted or tricked into placement in what amounts to prison-like environment, denied access to parents and family is sufficient enough.

The reason I know the program was responsible for my son?s ?PTSD? is that he did not have debilitating insomnia; Wasn?t self-mutilating; Wasn?t devil worshipping; Didn?t have outburst of rage or nightmares;  Didn?t skip meals; Didn?t abuse mind-altering substances; Didn?t mistrust all adults and authority;  Wasn?t doing poorly in school or social settings, prior to incarceration.

I agree with Ginger. There are many opportunities for kids (and adults) who aren?t in programs to experience trauma. The difference, in my opinion, is that the kids in programs are not allowed to express anger about, or even to talk or cry about what?s happening to them. They are required to remain silent, and punished further if they speak agin? it.  Kids on the outside have a better opportunity to vent about a trauma and resolve it. Being traumatized and silenced, while incarcerated by the perpetrator,  is like a double whammy, and what happens to what I imagine to be, the majority of kids in programs. When unusual behaviors begin after such an experience, you can not deny the obvious cause.

For those who are interested EMDR has proven to be very effective for ?PTSD?:  http://www.emdr.com/   It?s not an evasive therapy.  Short of that, the best thing you can do is listen, without interruption or judgment,  to their stories and provide validation- what they experienced was indeed abuse. My son trusted no one, especially therapists, not even the hand-selected counselor I chose. Most times he didn?t show up for appointments. I had sessions with her and she instructed me on how to help him at home. I spent many late nights listening, and providing feedback when appropriate.

Even if teens are not subjected to traumatic abuses, another problem with the ?program culture? in my opinion, is that it generally arrests natural development and the ability to learn how to function democratically in a family or social group. Negative associations can get attached to mundane, but important developmental tasks like keeping one?s space clean and orderly, spending time in nature, making a contribution to the upkeep of the group space, etc. etc; because instead of teaching skills, these activities are often required as a form of punishment. The person may develop aversions to actities that would make their life easier, if they didn't have resistence.

I love this fable regarding ?Who?s job is it?? to ?fix? teenagers: http://ishmael.com/Education/Writings/rice_u_2_98.shtml

[Anonymous]

Deb: How did your son come to terms w/being placed there? (I think in a TH post you said his father placed him there.) Does his father understand the damage done? How did you all get through it? I've read other cases where the custodial parent places a kid and the non-custodial parent can't get them out, etc. and it turns into one big ugly mess.  On another site, there was a Dad trying to get his son out, and the school turned the son against him. It's unbelievable how damaging these programs can be for families.

What did you first think when you heard about the program? Because many parents think its a good option when the ed con "expert" tells them about a "wonderful" school they know...  Did you have to learn the hard way?  Or were you wary from teh beginning?

[Antigen]

On 2004-08-02 14:12:00, Deborah wrote:

There are many opportunities for kids (and adults) who aren?t in programs to experience trauma. The difference, in my opinion, is that the kids in programs are not allowed to express anger about, or even to talk or cry about what?s happening to them. They are required to remain silent, and punished further if they speak agin? it. Kids on the outside have a better opportunity to vent about a trauma and resolve it. Being traumatized and silenced, while incarcerated by the perpetrator, is like a double whammy, and what happens to what I imagine to be, the majority of kids in programs. When unusual behaviors begin after such an experience, you can not deny the obvious cause.

I have to agree with this and I don't think the impact can be underestimated.

In the 'real world' (normal life at home, in the neighborhood, at school, etc.) if everyone disagrees with you on a particular thing, well you conclude that you must be mistaken. Take, for example the relatively normal toddler behavior of wanting to go naked in public. They might argue, protest, try their theory or whatever. It won't make a difference, people everywhere will reenforce the community norm that we all must wear clothing. They won't change everyone's mind, but there's no need to suppress the kid's rebellion because the community standard that you're trying to teach the kid is valid and real. If they won't take your word for it, they'll find out that you're telling them the truth. And, eventually, they'll comply and wear clothing, at least in public.

In a Program setting, it's quite different. The concensus is not natural, it's manufactured. They can't allow dissent or argument because there is no authentic concensus on a lot of the standards of conduct they insist on. One of the untrue facts that I had to accept was that my name was part of my "druggie past". Now, I can't remember ever having been called by my given name, even by family, not even by aunts or uncles or grandparents. I picked up my nickname when I was too young to remember. But, of course, when they stood me up and informed me that I would be called Virginia and the reason why, I couldn't argue about it. Because all of the people I was allowed to see or interact with re-enforced the lie, even though I knew logically that it was a lie, it became the truth in a very profound way.

More then a decade later I found a piece of art work that I had made in kindergarten in the bottom of box of momentos in my dad's house. I'll never forget it, it was a gingerbread man made of construction paper. I turned it over to look on the back and see who's it was (might just as well have been made by one of my brothers or sisters) and saw, in my own childish handwriting "G-I-N-G-E-R" I cried! Not that I expected it to say Virginia or anything. Just that that validation "See? I really didn't imagine it!" was that powerful.

Even though I didn't care that much what these people thought; I was only tolerating them till I could get away; just being forced to accept their version of facts above own knowledge was, apparently, pretty hurtful. And that was just a minor thing. Consider the implications of the same scenareo when the 'truth' in question is more important that that.

They used to burn witches. Today we laugh at them. Today we jail people for marijuana. Tomorrow they'll laugh at us.

--Robert "Rosie" Rowbotham

_________________
Ginger Warbis ~ Antigen
Seed sibling `71 - `80
Straight South (Sarasota, FL)
   10/80 - 10/82
Anonymity Anonymous
It is wrong to leave a stumbling block in the road once it has tripped you.

[Anonymous]

I'd never even seen a psychiatrist before going there and the reasons I was put in the psych wards were directly related to that CEDU nonsense.

On 2004-08-02 09:39:00, Anonymous wrote:

"But how do you know it's from CEDU? Again, I am definitely NOT defending the school.  I'm wondering if you already had psych issues that the school either couldn't help or made worse b/c of its lack of qualifications and harmful techniques. And because the root cause is never dealt with. "

[Anonymous]

Sometimes, especially in the case of biochemical imbalance, certain things don't manifest until you are older.

In your case, if it's program generated, it goes along w/what Deborah was saying about behavior changing AFTER the program.

Sometimes it could be a confluence of factors. A kid has some deep rooted issues and the program only makes it worse. There is no question these programs can make a sane person troubled.

You know what's funny? I escaped CEDU after 6 months and was still (unconsciously) trying to live "in agreement."  Worse, I judged everyone else by that same code which only isolated me.

Did this happen to anyone else?

[Anonymous]

How much is CEDU paying you to post here?

On 2004-08-02 20:20:00, Anonymous wrote:

"Sometimes, especially in the case of biochemical imbalance, certain things don't manifest until you are older.



In your case, if it's program generated, it goes along w/what Deborah was saying about behavior changing AFTER the program.



Sometimes it could be a confluence of factors. A kid has some deep rooted issues and the program only makes it worse. There is no question these programs can make a sane person troubled.



You know what's funny? I escaped CEDU after 6 months and was still (unconsciously) trying to live "in agreement."  Worse, I judged everyone else by that same code which only isolated me.



Did this happen to anyone else?







"

[Anonymous]

Are you kidding me--I went there! I'm shanlea, original poster. And I was listing scenarios, not narrating yours.

At the end of the day, even though some people would say "get over it"  I am just trying to figure out the impact CEDU had on me.  I'm trying to discern what is my own lifelong baggage, and what areas CEDU really left its own ugly imprint.  

I never talked about CEDU in all the years since I've been out, never went back to the same school or friends... I don't think anyone who hasn't been through a BM school would understand the insidious ways it affects you... Noone I know was ever sent to a BM School.  I remember trying to explain it to a few people and it was beyond their grasp. But as much as I pretended I never went there, it affected me.

This site allows me to explore that. Reading other people's posts is validating, and in some ways, it helps me articulate what I'm feeling. It is helpful to see commonalities amongst us (and some of the testimony from other sites w/similar programs.)