facts on ALA

[Anonymous]

After thoroughly reading all the entries and the comments regarding this situation, it would appear that Paige is creating another drama like in South Florida with the Elian Gonzalez case, the little boy who washed up on the shore from Cuba.  His father wanted him back and his cousins here in the states took it to court to try and have Elian taken away from his father because the cousins thought they knew what was best for their cousin, regardless of the father's wishes.

As an outsider to this situation (as is everyone who has responded to Paige)we only know the one side of the story.  No one, not Paige, not anyone who is showing her support, knows what the parents have gone through.  It is always very easy to sit back and judge someone else's parenting skills and parenting decisions.  

God as our parent, our most loving father, at times puts us in situations that we don't like, that we don't understand, FOR OUR OWN GOOD!!  

Paige, you say you are a Christian.  I do not know you.  I do know, that you know, that as a Christian, we are to pray about situations and let God handle them.  As a Christian, we are subjected to the authority over us.

I am confident that you were not in the room the many times the parents were brought to tears, the result of the bad choices this young girl has made, that lead to their decision to try to get her help by placing her where she is now.  While you think you may know what has gone on with the family, I am willing to bet that you are an outsider to the problems, and as such, really not in a position to make judgement on what is best for her.

Paige, if you want to help the child, than pray for the child to make wise choices.  Pray for her parents to make wise choices.  Pray for God's will, not Paige's will, to be done.  

The minor child in question is subjected to the authority over her, namely her parents.  You are out of line, just as Elian's relatives were out of line, in trying to interfere with his father's wishes to have his son back.  

The Bible has a great deal to say concerning raising children, and punishment for inappropriate actions.  Could it be that her parents actually love their daughter more than you can comprehend because they are demonstrating tough love?  

I have not read anything in any of your entries about the minor child being physically abused, made to sleep on hard floors, being without clothes, not being fed, being refused basic necessities.  The issues you are having with her parents seem to be parenting style issues.  It is so easy to sit back and judge, critisize, and condemn the parenting decisions of others.  

What I have seen, with my own eyes, is that YOU PAIGE have endangered the minor child.  You have listed her by name.  Juvenile delinquents who commit various crimes have their names protected.  You haven't even bothered to do do that.  So, who is caring for the minor child and who isn't?  You've pasted your family's story on the web to seek support from strangers.  You have now draged your son and his sister out into the open.  Yet, you sit back and condemn her parents for their decision, and make comments about them not loving her.  Who is showing more love Paige, them for protecting her, or you for pasting it out in the open for the whole world to see?

Paige, as a parent myself, I will pray for her parents to make wise choices.  Unlike the others who have shown you support, who have not lived through the problems that brought the minor child to the place she is now, I will not jump on your bandwagon and help you undermine the parents of this girl.  One Elian story in the states is enough.  Paige, if you truly do care for the girl, as you want others to believe, than stop dragging her through the mud and pray for God's will to be done, not yours.

The news is full of stories of parents who have starved their children, tied them with duct tape, beat them, had sex with them, locked them in cages, not clothed them, and other horrible things.  The personal conflict you are having with her parents does not seem to fall into any of these catagories.  

I feel sorry for you to be so blind.

[Paige]

Hi Craig,I was wondering when you would show up.
You are entitled to your opinion and again it is strictly your opinion making your nor I either right or wrong. And may I ask you - how long have you known the parents and the children??? You don't. I also know that God gave us a brain and the ability to act. If not then places like your school would not be in existence. God did not send Amanda to the Abundant Life Academy, her parents did.  Again, I have no problem with your business I expect you and your staff to take good care of her and believe that you will.  So thank you for your opinion.

[Paige]

I forgot something - this is not just my battle the rest of the family is opposed to this situation and if you choose to slamdunk me for it - go for it. The people who are important here are the family and the child. This is not my personal campaign I am the spokesperson for the rest of the family. So again thank you for your opinion and I will inform the rest of the family that we are all blind and the only ones who are not are the parents.

[Anonymous]

Hey, nutbar---even though he lived in a commie country, the Gonzalez dad wanted his son *home to live with him*---not to ship him away to Miss Minchin's Select Seminary for Young Ladies.

Anybody who wants to ship their kid off somewhere against the kid's will has *no* leg to stand on when a fit adult, be it friend or relative, wants to offer that kid a place in the adult's wholesome, stable home.

Shipping your kid, unwilling, off to some institution to live is the next thing to child abandonment.  I think the courts should give custody to any responsible adult who knows the kid, and can offer a stable home environment, that the kid will accept.

Unless, of course, the kid is a candidate for involuntary commitment based on being an immediate danger to himself or others, and is placed in a *real* mental institution to be stabilized on medication and then released back home.

There are real grounds for involuntary commitment.  There are also spurious grounds.  There are a lot more pain in the ass teens than there are teens who would meet the adult criteria for involuntary commitment.

[Anonymous]

Another Christian program advocate who thinks they know what 'god' wants and expects others to do....
"Paige, you say you are a Christian. I do not know you. I do know, that you know, that as a Christian, we are to pray about situations and let God handle them. As a Christian, we are subjected to the authority over us."

In other words, don't interfer with 'god's' (read: program/parent) authority in this situation. Pray and be quiet. What a crock of stinky stuff. Apparently Paige has prayed and 'god' told her to intervene for a child whose real needs aren't being met.

As for the conditions that this child was living in- no there was no mention of physical abuse, but go back and read Paige's message on page 4. Her needs were not being met and it sounds like she was being used, then punished when she rebeled.

This child had other family members who were willing to take her. Like all good program supporters, the parents prefer to punish her.
Would your 'god' prefer the teen to be with family or with strangers, isolated from her family?

Your post anon sounds like a holier-than-thou, religious mind-*uck, guilt-trip to get Paige to leave the situation alone- 'god's' will is being done. Malarkey.

What this sounds like is a covert attempt to silence Paige by someone who has a vested interest in Amanda staying in the program. And to plant the suggestion in the mind's of the general public that 'god' is a program supporter.  :lol:

As to airing the situation on the internet. In her attempt to be honest and forcoming about the situation, she may not have thought to leave the child's name anonymous- some of you posting obviously already knew the teen and the story. I think it gives her more credibility. A story seems less real when the characters have no names. So much easier to disregard what's happening to the real, live people involved. She can always go back and edit the names in her posts if she feels it's appropriate or necessary. That's really none of your business. And no, the name's of minors who commit crimes are not always withheld.

You say, "God as our parent, our most loving father, at times puts us in situations that we don't like, that we don't understand, FOR OUR OWN GOOD!!"
And 'god' may put these 'parents' in a courtroom where they have to defend their lame choices for this child, for their own good.

As for your example of the Elian ordeal- I see Paige as the parent in this situation, attempting to get a child released from the grips of a program that thinks they have the answers that will give this child a 'better' life, and misguided parents who have bought into it or get off on punishment.

[Anonymous]

Paige; I'm not trying to be a smart ass; I really would like to know; where and how you got the idea I wasn''t willing to listen to you?
I have tried to be clear that I would.

I don't think that is Craig your responding to, altho I don't know who it is.
Still, they have made a point or two you should think about.

Formost in my mind, again, is the girl's privacy.
Consider what your doing. . .
You've posted a lot of identifying information about her and her family on a board with the likes of Turd and Butcher. . .
Who knows how many others, as demented or worse, are just lurking. . .
This is very foolhardy and thoughtless.

I was also a bit taken aback by the slur you used to discribe her family, "GOOD CHRISTAINS". I wouldn't have been at all surprised, except you said a bit eariler you were Christan. . .

If so, then how can you be so comfortable mocking this family's faith?
It makes me wonder if their faith isn't your only real problem.

As for Ginger's advice, Its for the most part good advice. My only disscent would be that such advice may feed your concerns that the girl is being mistreated. If so, then she has done you a disservice, as that isn't something you need to worry about.

Ginger is a survivor of the most horrid and abusive situation I have ever herd tell of, apart from true prisoner of war stories.
It colors her world, as it naturally would for anyone. Its understandable.

However, the situation at ALA is very different and not at all what Ginger remembers or knows of other programs.

This is not a heavy handed punitive style program. No doubt they have students who would rather be somewere else - but the same can be said of most every kid in school on a nice spring day; or adult at work.

She is not being made to feel badly about herself; she is not being kept hungery or going without sleep or being threatened with violence.

She may in fact be a very unhappy young lady; but not b/c of ALA; rather b/c of the hard knocks life has delt her; and ALA is a very good place to come to terms with all this and find her strengths and develope some goals and find some true measure of Peace.

Once you are able to determine she is safe; you should leave her alone. Thats my opinion, for what ever little bit its worth.

As for her brother - I wonder if there is an impartial third party whom he could have contact threw? Would you consint to that?  
It *seems* as if her family's concern revolves around you - if the boy could call from somewhere else; or even visit with someone else  maybe. . .
Would you consint to that?

[Antigen]

On 2004-04-09 02:08:00, Anonymous wrote:

 I do know, that you know, that as a Christian, we are to pray about situations and let God handle them.

Then send those kids back to their homes and just pray for them, ok?

Moralizing, with the force of law or coercion, is a
far greater crime against the constitutional principles of our nation than unauthorized euphoria, regardless of the substance involved, be it chocolate or heroin.
--James

[Antigen]

On 2004-04-09 08:14:00, Anonymous wrote:

Formost in my mind, again, is the girl's privacy.

I think you should take it up with Craig, then, for putting Amanda's name out on the web on the pretense of a prayer request.

As far as I can tell, this family's privacy has not been compromised here. Having read these threads, all I know is that there's a girl named Amanda who lives in Texas and has a relative named Paige. That could be damned near anyone.

For three days after death, hair and fingernails continue to grow but phone calls taper off.  
-- Johnny Carson

[Anonymous]

If so, then how can you be so comfortable mocking this family's faith?

The owner of the school is a hypocrit.  If anyone is mocking anyones faith, it would be he.

It makes me wonder if their faith isn't your only real problem.

If their faith is anything like Craigs faith, then yeah it should be a problem...he is a hypocrit.

As for Ginger's advice, Its for the most part good advice. My only disscent would be that such advice may feed your concerns that the girl is being mistreated. If so, then she has done you a disservice, as that isn't something you need to worry about

Yeah sure, just "trust" the program.

[Deborah]

"This is not a heavy handed punitive style program. No doubt they have students who would rather be somewere else - but the same can be said of most every kid in school on a nice spring day; or adult at work. She is not being made to feel badly about herself; she is not being kept hungery or going without sleep or being threatened with violence."

She is being held incommunicado. She can not speak to members of her family, not even her parents or brother.

The pertinent question is: Who conducted the psych evaluation which determined that this extreme intervention was in her best interest?

If Paige's account is accurate, and depending on the judge's perception, s/he just might find it in the teen's best interest to be with family that WANT her. Rational judges prefer "the least restricted environment" that will keep families together. That, in no way describes a program.

If I were Paige, that's the path I would pursue. Hire an attorney that will make issue with the fact that no evaluation was conducted. The mother was neglegent in seeking counseling and resorted to incarcerating her. There are family members who want the teen and who will provide her needs.

Get over the privacy issue. How is it that everyone here knows your and your son's name? Real people have names and aren't afraid to use them. Can you not get it that you are not in control? You might need to pray the Serenity Prayer and contemplate why "lack of privacy" in this matter is more an issue for YOU than the actual people involved. She absolutely has no privacy where she is... but then that's different in you mind.

As the story was told, it appears the girl had "goal"- to go to regular school and not be a maid and nanny- which didn't sit well with the parents.

As for contact with the brother- are you attempting to negotiate an agreement between Paige and ALA? Are you privy to what ALA would allow in this situation, or simply speculating or saying whatever comes to mind to quiet Paige or trying to soften the rigid reality around the program?

If you are attempting to broker an agreement, when and how often might she be allowed to speak to her brother- IF Paige was willing to follow the dictates of the program- the brother calling from a third party residence? How often would she see her brother and for how long? How long in the "warehouse" before any of this would even be possible? And what position do you hold that qualifies you to negotiate?

And how might Paige ascertain that the teen is "safe"? Take your word for it? Trust the program's word?   :lol:

I could be wrong, but I didn't get that Paige's main concern is for Amanda's "safety"- being killed or maimed? THAT is not the issue. Her eyes are open to the injustice and she has set out to try to do something about. She may not be successful due to the ignorant people that make final decisions. But, I appreciate and admire her efforts. And as much as you program supporters want to believe otherwise, isolating someone from family, friends, society is more HURTFUL than useful and should be a last resort for seriously deranged people who have lost their grip on reality, and then only until their rationale has been restored.
[ This Message was edited by: Deborah on 2004-04-09 10:09 ]

[Anonymous]

As to privacy - I made the decision when I wanted my name out; and I asked my son's permission to use his.
The situation we are debating here is different. Maybe the kid wouldn't mind; but what if she does? And I expect her parents are none to pleased.
"I think you should take it up with Craig, then, for putting Amanda's name out on the web on the pretense of a prayer request."
Point noted; however, there is a difference - this is believed to be a private board and so is not populated by people the likes of your Butcher and Turd; who BTW are shinning examples of why you ought to moderate a little Ginger. And its also not as if the kids whole life story has been plastered up for all to see. Can you not see that she might object to this, and with good reason? It was wrong of you to encourage Paige to tell it all on an open board. If you wanted details, you could have discussed it privately. Paige being new at Board Games, may not understand this, but you do. I think you just like the shits and giggles you get out of yanking people's chains.
"If Paige's account is accurate, . . ."
Do keep the big If in mind.
I don't know what's behind all the trouble between these people, and neither do you guys.
Its possible the parents have very good reason to not want Paige in contact with their daughter; and they do have the right to make this decision.
I am not attempting to broker anything; nor am I privy to any extra knowledge about the possibility. I would like to help if I can - that's all. I need a starting point.
I do know family , brothers and sisters included can and do visit, anytime. Its not earned, as Paige says she believes. Anytime from day one, and family often does visit. This leads me to speculate (and it IS speculation at this point, b/c I am not privy to the family's details) that the brother would be welcome. As I said, the problem *seems* to be with Paige.
"She can not speak to members of her family, not even her parents or brother."
This is just not true. I don't know where you got this idea. I know of know problem except with Paige and possibly one other family member.
"And how might Paige ascertain that the teen is "safe"? Take your word for it? Trust the program's word?"
She has been given good advice on this by Ginger and others. I assume she intends to follow up on some or all of it.
It would be better if these folks could agree to disagree and get along for the sake of the siblings. I wish such were the case. But as its not, I personally feel, as a result of what I've seen hear; as well as her badgering others who have tried to help; its quite likely Paige has only herself to blame for being denied contact with Amanda.
And Paige is hardly society, family and friends all rolled into one.
The ALA kids are not cut off that way; and this I do know for a fact.
This kid is not to have contact with this person; and I can imagine plenty of scenarios where that would be understandable and in the girl's best interest.
If anyone is being rigid and unreasonable in this, it is Paige.
And your interest in a psyc eval is misplace Deb. ALA is not a psychiatric facility and doesn't pretend to be.

[Anonymous]

could your child be exasperated??

[Deborah]

***The situation we are debating here is different. Maybe the kid wouldn't mind; but what if she does? Can you not see that she might object to this, and with good reason?

Since when are program supporters concerned with what children want? What if she WANTS to live with Paige? That's between the two of them. Further, no one has "encouraged" Paige to "tell it all" on a public board. I didn't ask questions. Ginger invited her share details, IF it was appropriate. Paige is an adult and perfectly capable of making decisions for herself.

You're not attempting to broker, but you need a "starting point". Contradictory. Either you're brokering an agreement or not. I think you would like to convince Paige to back off. Why are you negotiating on a public forum? Particularly if you are not in a position to make decisions.

***I wish such were the case. But as its not, I personally feel, as a result of what I've seen hear; as well as her badgering others who have tried to help; its quite likely Paige has only herself to blame for being denied contact with Amanda.  This kid is not to have contact with this person; and I can imagine plenty of scenarios where that would be understandable and in the girl's best interest.

Did a judge make this decision, or some program idiot who thinks they know what's best and who is more likely just following the dictates of the parent? Who at ALA is qualified and unbiased enough to determine what is in the child's best interest? There should be a third-party, independent evaluation.

***And your interest in a psyc eval is misplace Deb. ALA is not a psychiatric facility and doesn't pretend to be.

I am under no illusion that ALA is a psych facility, even more reason to have an evaluation to determine if it's in her best interest, the least restrictive environment, and meeting her needs.

[Anonymous]

Karen, I didn't see you complaining about F-13 when he was posting his filthy comments about Carey Bock, but then again, you have admitted calling her names yourself (e.g. WWASPS WHORE),
so I guess exeptions can be made, is that it?

 :smokin:

[Anonymous]

On 2004-04-07 18:02:00, Anonymous wrote:

"Goofy face anon; you are making assumptions based on scant actual knowledge, and as usual in such cases, you are mistaken.

My reasons are my own, and have nothing to do with regretting anything, I assure you.

I have felt badly about calling Carey a wwasp whore; but no to bad. I believe it to the case; but maybe ought not say so.

 It is interesting how there is always Someone trying to bring the dialog back to Carey.(Having a little trouble walking away from the lime light?) Anyway, I know it isn't Christian to despise someone so badly, and so I do try and keep it in check. As for forgiveness - as someone is bound to bring up - I find it difficult to forgive someone who refuses to admit they've done wrong. If she would admit she has done a despicable thing and ask forgiveness - I honestly believe I could manage it. But as I believe she'd rather die than admitt she could ever do anything wrong - I don't think I'll be put to the test.



Move on you say (get lost) well, I might. And if and when I do, folks like you will insist I'm evading you.



"

Karen, this is unbelievable! You can not forgive somebody because they didn't ask YOU for forgiveness?  I give you an F for your failure to be faithful to the teachings of Jesus Christ and the Word of God.

 :evil: