Spots and Deberahs Family Dynamics?

[Anonymous]

This question is to Spots and Deberah, maybe it is allready posted somewhere, but I have a question for each of you-

Spots whats the family dynamics of your grandchild? (e.g. Your grandchilds biological parents)

The question applies to Deberah as well, What is the famiily dynamics of your family? Do you have custody of your child?

[Anonymous]

Is Spots or Deborah going to answer? Or can some one give a link of where this has been covered? :flame:

[Deborah]

You picked the right emoticon. Take a chill pill. Like most, including yourself, I don't cozy up to just any ol anon and tell them intimate details of my personal life, especially when they aren't relevant to the discussion.
There is a difference between avoiding and ignoring. In case you are confused, I was ignoring you. Can't speak for spots.

[Anonymous]

Not trying to be cozy, it would just be helpfull to know where your coming from. Nothing personal either just would like to know who has custody.

[spots]

Like Deborah, I give short shrift to Anons.  You all know my "log in" (which comes from the fact that we have Spotted Saddle Horses, gaited Tennessee Walking Horses, and Missouri Fox Trotters), as well as my real name.  I really don't see a need to respond to someone who is afraid to stand up and be counted, because I am proud to affirm my opposition to WWASPS.  However...

Our grandaughter is the oldest child of our oldest daughter (4 daughters).  She has always been an important physical presence in our family.  She has 3 "aunties" and uncles, several cousins, and is comfortable spending extended periods of time with us.  

Other than that, you don't deserve to know anything else, especially since you can't even spell "Deberah"!!!  Our family relationship is private, and does not impact my resolve to expose WWASPS for its abusive curriculum.  So, we are doing fine, thank you, and the rest is none of your God-damned business.  Thank you for asking.

[Anonymous]

What you want to do is stick them in a cozy little pigeon hole titled Non Custodial Parent - so you can reinforce your thought reformed notion that its only dysfunctional, non custodial parents who have a problem with the program.

I'm not Spots or Deb, but I'd like you to know, I've been married to the same man (and happily so) for 22 years. We had full custody of our son when we sent him to the program.
We discovered the program wasn't at all what it was supposed to be; and we strongly disapprove.

I maintain we were manipulated and lied to by the program, over and over and to extreme degrees.

I maintain my son was seriously underfed. His health was seriously neglected. He was subjected to painful restraint b/c he asked for a bathroom break while in OP. Lets talk about OP - 12 hours a day, on his knees, face to the wall, hands behind his back. Or, flat on the concrete, face to the floor, hands behind his back - for 12 hours a day. He had three days of this. Some kids gets months of it. Think about that a moment will ya - Months of this.
He had to listen to his friends screaming in pain on many occasions.
All of this, I very deeply resent and regret.


What pigeon hole have you got ready for me?

[Anonymous]

To the mom - I'm not the anon that started this thread- aand I can't see the point either.  I will ask you why you feel you were lied to and manipulated by "the program?"  Is this what your son said to you or you know this for a fact? No accusations, just a question for clarification.

[spots]

On 2004-01-03 18:24:00, Anonymous wrote:

"To the mom - I'm not the anon that started this thread- aand I can't see the point either.  I will ask you why you feel you were lied to and manipulated by "the program?"  Is this what your son said to you or you know this for a fact? No accusations, just a question for clarification. "

OK, like WAY implicit in this "question" is ...how can you believe the little shit?  FWIW, we have been astounded at the concurrence of information received from our grandaughter and all the other (literally 100's as opposed to the "1000's" blithely quoted as successful WSWASPSies) kids I have found in the last year+.  

It is a sad parent whose first instinct is to accept a statement from his child with disdain, and instead go for the statement of the facility which has incredible fortune to gain by keeping your child until "he's cooked".  

I think a pertinent fact to consider is that WWASPS parents tend to distrust their children IN EVERY SINGLE DETAIL, and believe strangers without credentials other than the need to prolong incarceration for money.  TELL THEM WHAT THEY WANT TO HEAR, i.e., I was right sending this kid off because I always knew, from birth, that he was a little shit, and IT'S NOT MY FAULT!!  Being able to copulate on some breezy romantic night and procreate does not make you a good parent...a parent maybe, but never a good parent.  Were you all spawned from such a family yourselves, that you inherently hate, distrust, and condemn your own offspring?  Is this the legacy of your own parents?  Did they hate you too, and try to set up traps to catch you and force "change" to their personal limited way of thinking?  Is your way of "loving" them limited to lock-step following of your own rather hateful program?  If you were "lower class", would you beat them up instead of sending them off to let someone else beat them up for money?

[Anonymous]

On 2004-01-03 18:10:00, Anonymous wrote:

"What you want to do is stick them in a cozy little pigeon hole titled Non Custodial Parent - so you can reinforce your thought reformed notion that its only dysfunctional, non custodial parents who have a problem with the program.



I'm not Spots or Deb, but I'd like you to know, I've been married to the same man (and happily so) for 22 years. We had full custody of our son when we sent him to the program.

We discovered the program wasn't at all what it was supposed to be; and we strongly disapprove.



I maintain we were manipulated and lied to by the program, over and over and to extreme degrees.



I maintain my son was seriously underfed. His health was seriously neglected. He was subjected to painful restraint b/c he asked for a bathroom break while in OP. Lets talk about OP - 12 hours a day, on his knees, face to the wall, hands behind his back. Or, flat on the concrete, face to the floor, hands behind his back - for 12 hours a day. He had three days of this. Some kids gets months of it. Think about that a moment will ya - Months of this.

He had to listen to his friends screaming in pain on many occasions.

All of this, I very deeply resent and regret.





What pigeon hole have you got ready for me?

"

How did you hear of the program?  Did you personally visit the program before agreeing to place your son there? How long was your son in the program? What did you do after you concluded he was being maltreated (e.g. take him out and bring him home?) and how is he doing now?

 :wave:

[Anonymous]

WWASPS helps the whole family, they do not just focus on the child. So the parents can't blame it all on the kid. Let me see a small handfull of real disgruntled parents compared to thousands of satisfied parents. BTW family dynamics do matter, how many parents are mad at a Behavior Modification Program because it is an extension of a custody battel, it really is a good question. I am just wondering why you are avoiding it? Do you have custody?

[Deborah]

I imagine your true interest is in distracting attention from the hard questions posed at this forum-- how kids are treated on a daily basis in WWASP,  or any other program for that matter, and whether that treatment is humane and/or violates their rights as human beings in a free society.






 

[ This Message was edited by: Deborah on 2004-01-03 20:24 ]

[Antigen]

On 2004-01-03 18:24:00, Anonymous wrote:

 To the mom - I'm not the anon that started this thread- aand I can't see the point either. I will ask you why you feel you were lied to and manipulated by "the program?" Is this what your son said to you or you know this for a fact? No accusations, just a question for clarification.

How about this. This is what this anon poster's kid said to them. This is also what litterally hundreds of other kids have said. This is what the contracts that the parents sign ask permission to do. You want me to believe what you think is going on inside these programs and to not believe these other hundreds of people. Why? What reason do I have to believe you over these other people?

What they describe is extremely similar to what I saw for two years in another Synanon based coercive persuasion program.

The line separating good and evil passes not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties either, but right through every human heart.
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0060007761/circlofmiamithem' target='_new'>Alexander Solzhenitsyn

[Antigen]

I have not seen thousands of satisfied parents. I have seen reference to thousands of writing assignments. But I never seem to run into a lot of these people whenever I go out looking for discussion on the topic. And many of those who remain satisfied parents for years have little or no contact with their kids or grandkids after the program. But that doesn't seem to trouble them. They got what they wanted.

You can lead a camel to water but you can't make it stink (any more than it already does)
-- Job

[Anonymous]

That probably because you don't have access to their boards. Another thing a lot of people have jobs, resposibilites, families, relationships etc, not the time or know how of hanging out on some anomous bulletin board.

BTW the more active posters have visited this board and others and have moved on to creating postive changes else where.

Many people are dealing with their own issues, and tend to blame everything else except themselves for how their lives have turned out.

Successful people, learn, adjust and move on.

How many parents that enrolled their child into a WWASPS program and are disgruntled are posters on this board, and are not competitors as well, maybe 5 maybe 10 if that.

BTW posters that have never been to a WWASP facility or are Political Activist don't count either.


NICE TRY  :wave:  :wave:  :wave:  :wave:  :wave:  :wave:  :wave:  :eek:  :eek:  :eek:

[Anonymous]

Spots - your granddaughter did not complete the program.  She may have had you not forced the mother to release her or you would continue legal proceedings.  You are a bully, which is apparent by your language and your assumptions.  I never thought of my son as a "little shit."  Not ever!  I saw the choices he was making to destroy his life and loved him enough to make a very hard decision.  He was not a throwaway child in any way.  How dare you assume that loving my son was hurting him  - hey, we're not all as perfect as you are.  BTW you must be a great mom to your daughter to have alienated her from you.  Do you even care how much you have hurt her by taking her own daughter away from her?