Spots and Deberahs Family Dynamics?

[Anonymous]

Antigen - very good try on this one - the writing assignments are a very SMALL part of a seminar and it's NOT mandatory.  You can bet that many more parents CHOOSE to write those letters and it is NOT a requirement of the kids to write - at all.  Like the above ANON said - Good try!  Won't fly.

[Anonymous]

Anon,

In fairness, Spots is not the first or last grandmother to disagree with the decision to place her grandchild in a behavior mod program.  What about David Van Blarigan's grandparents?  They didn't believe their grandson (who had no criminal record or history of substance abuse) should have been sent to a behavior modification program, either.  My question to program parents is why are friends, relatives, neighbors who have a good relationship with your child viewed as "the enemy"?  Some children just don't get along with their parents and rely upon the love and guidance of other family members,siblings, friends and even their teachers to help them cope with problems at home.  This is not a bad thing, and in fact, makes a lot more sense than punishing a kid for not living up to the expectations and demands of their parents (or a step parent, as the case may be).  Only kids who are a danger to themselves or others, or seriously psychotic should be placed in a highly restrictive (meaning 24 hour supervision)residential treatment facility or hospital, and even then, experts say 90 days is about the standard of time needed to stablize the child. Somehow, there has to be a better way to resolve family issues without creating such disharmony and alienting children from their loved ones and forcing them to grow up in an instituionalized-style program.  I'm not talking about WWASPS.  There are literally hundreds of programs in the U.S. full of kids that don't really need to be there.  At least not in the eyes of others who know these children at least as well (if not better) than their own parents do.

[Anonymous]

I fully agree with you on this one!  Those are the kids in the minority, though.  Why some parents would admit their child to a program if they aren't exhibiting behavior that would warrant this type of care is a question only they can answer.  I will say, however, even if they have only "normal" teenage issues, they will still come home with knowledge that some people may never learn.  To those kids, they won't be there as long.  I don't know about any other programs, but I do know that wwasp schools do not accept psychotic diagnosis.  These are good kids making life threatening choices, for the majority.  

How I do wish there was a better way, a short 90 day quick fix to this.  For the majority of us, at least from those I've known over the years, we all tried counseling, help from family, help from anyone, but it failed.  There is no easy answer, or working answer other than what we chose for our families - but if you find one let me know.

[Anonymous]

Oh, on the 90 day stabilization - that's only stabilized - what about after the 90 days?  Change, true change, takes a lot longer than a mere 90 days.

[Antigen]

On 2004-01-03 21:42:00, Anonymous wrote:

That probably because you don't have access to their boards. Another thing a lot of people have jobs, resposibilites, families, relationships etc, not the time or know how of hanging out on some anomous bulletin board.

Ok, in which one of these private fora do you think we could have this conversation? Let's pick one and just copy and paste the whole thing and count the seconds till it's deleted and I'm banned.

Sacred cows make the best hamburger.  
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/external-search?tag=circlofmiamithem&keyword=mark+twain&mode=books' target='_new'> Mark Twain

[Deborah]

***There is no easy answer, or working answer other than what we chose for our families - but if you find one let me know.***

http://additudemag.com/ourkids.asp?DEPT ... &SUB_NO=22

[Anonymous]

"Anon,

In fairness, Spots is not the first or last grandmother to disagree with the decision to place her grandchild in a behavior mod program. What about David Van Blarigan's grandparents? They didn't believe their grandson (who had no criminal record or history of substance abuse) should have been sent to a behavior modification program, either. My question to program parents is why are friends, relatives, neighbors who have a good relationship with your child viewed as "the enemy"? Some children just don't get along with their parents and rely upon the love and guidance of other family members,siblings, friends and even their teachers to help them cope with problems at home. This is not a bad thing, and in fact, makes a lot more sense than punishing a kid for not living up to the expectations and demands of their parents (or a step parent, as the case may be). Only kids who are a danger to themselves or others, or seriously psychotic should be placed in a highly restrictive (meaning 24 hour supervision)residential treatment facility or hospital, and even then, experts say 90 days is about the standard of time needed to stablize the child. Somehow, there has to be a better way to resolve family issues without creating such disharmony and alienting children from their loved ones and forcing them to grow up in an instituionalized-style program. I'm not talking about WWASPS. There are literally hundreds of programs in the U.S. full of kids that don't really need to be there. At least not in the eyes of others who know these children at least as well (if not better) than their own parents do.

Anonymous"

Anon,

While you make some very good points, their are a few problems- (e.g.) The programs get in the middle of a power dispute or custody battle, the programs make contracts with the parents or legal gaurdians. Therefore it is the parents resposbility to place the child. The programs are always and should honor the legal parents or gaurdians wishes.

It is always eaiser looking in from the outside and be judgemental of parenting choices, however their may be more then meets the eye. You may not know of what happens in the home, or if the child has a chemical inbalance or something similar that  may stunt their progression. Not all kids in these programs have subtance abuse problems or legal problems. As a matter of fact if they have to sever of problems most smart programs will not even take those kids.


Still parenting rights ultimatley and should belong to the legal parents or gaurdians. If they are incompetent they should get a court order.

All most always the parents know best for their child.

The older you get and the more kids you have, you understand your parents did pretty well, and can become thankful for discipline and rules.

[Anonymous]

***There is no easy answer, or working answer other than what we chose for our families - but if you find one let me know.***

http://additudemag.com/ourkids.asp?DEPT ... &SUB_NO=22


DOES NOT APPLY-

Sure if a parents is dealing with a difficult teen with ADD/ADHD this could be helpfull.

This is not the typical issue most parents calling in or needing help have. They teens are dealing with a lot more sever problems then ADD/ADHD, their is usally some major charachter problems, that can be compounded with substance abuse, chemical inbalances, the list could go on and on.

Most parents who place their kids are way past that point.

[Deborah]

Notice your response. You asked for an alternative, and whether you choose to see the link I provided as an alternative or not, it is.
It genuinely keeps the family united and results in positive change, and has a higher success rate than RT.

In my opinion, you just left the realm of a parent sharing their experience and entered into the realm of being an expert on why parents incarcerate their teens, why it is absolutely necessary, and their only option. You sound more like a promoter or damage control agent. That's how I choose to perceive you.

Afterall, "happy", "successful" parents have better things to do, right? Only those who have a vested interest in the program would spend their time posting to message boards.

[Anonymous]

Deborah what experince do you have working with struggling teens? Any Degrees, any real scientific data that applies, any experience?

My point has been, the alternative does not apply to the majority of people sending their child to a RTC or specialy boarding schools. Your article talks about add/adhd that a teen maybe difficult.

Most parents looking to enroll are way past that, they have allready tried counselling, family members , intervetion, you name it.

I am interested to hear what experince you have.

[Deborah]

You folks appear to be so focused on defending and being right that it interferes with your ability to comprehend and be objective, much less open to more humane options.

The article said:
For example, children in this study also had emotional and behavioral disorders (EBD), conduct disorders and oppositional behaviors that further complicated their AD/HD symptoms. About one-third of the children in the study also had general anxiety, separation anxiety, or depression, or some combination of all three.
***

That pretty much covers the scope of all the minor "disorders" that might land a teen in a warehouse situation. So the kids in these programs are too far gone for this option to work for? Didn't one of you anons state that WWASP doesn't take the seriously "disordered" kids. Who's left?

[Anonymous]

On 2004-01-03 23:14:00, Anonymous wrote:

"Oh, on the 90 day stabilization - that's only stabilized - what about after the 90 days?  Change, true change, takes a lot longer than a mere 90 days. "

Thank you for your response, Anon.  Regarding the question about what happens after a child returns home after 90 days of care and treatment in a residential treatment facility or hospital -- there is no one-size-fits-all treatment modality that can effectively address the **individual**
mental, physical and emotional needs of these children.  Or any child, for that matter. But you are right about one thing.  Change is a process.  Parents who commit their child into a long-term behavior-changing program often do so with the belief that submerging their child in a controlled environment for months, even years, is conducive to change. But do the end results justify the means?  Insulating children in an environment where their every thought and action is judged in accordance to the demands and expectations of THE PROGRAM is an extreme method of indoctrination.  The values and beliefs imposed upon programmed children are designed to force them into compliance (not acceptance) with an instuitionalized lifestyle. If you don't believe me, take a good look at your parent manual.  The instructional guide used by programs to indoctrinate parents with the same values and beliefs your children are being instilled with 24 hours a day, 7 days a week.  This process of change can not be called giving your child a "second chance" when in reality, it is slowly but surely robbing them of their individuality.  If that is what you believe is right, then something is wrong with your reality testing skills.

[Anonymous]

On 2004-01-03 23:46:00, Deborah wrote:

"***There is no easy answer, or working answer other than what we chose for our families - but if you find one let me know.***



http://additudemag.com/ourkids.asp?DEPT ... &SUB_NO=22

"

And in that same article there is  link to: http://additudemag.com/ourkids.asp?DEPT ... &SUB_NO=17

Deborah - I really appreciate this link, however, most of it is based on a theory.  This would be a great alternative IF the KID buys into it! IF communities offer this! and IF you get a commitment from ALL parties involved.  

I get that you assume that parents haven't tried everything they can find first.  The majority of them have.  The majority are not in conflict with a spouse over treatment options or custody battles.  I will do some research in my area and see if this article's options are available and let you all know what I find out.

[Deborah]

The article contained no link to an advertisement. You may have found that page on the website, but not in the article.

The article was not based on theory. It was the results of a STUDY- the practical application of a theory.

You may not find this specific program in your community, but if you ask, you will find a therapist who will work with a family as the article details.

[Anonymous]

Deborah - You are missing what I just said.  The KID has to buy into any help.  Therapy is great if they do, and results will certainly follow.  What you may or may not get is that a majority of the kids go to a therapist and play a game, or they refuse to go at all. The parents are willing and open, but if junior refuses, what other alternatives can you suggest?