Apologia - Serious debate only, please!

[Anonymous]

What I don't understand is the "due process" thing.  Isn't that done in a court of law?  Most of these kids haven't broken any laws (legally speaking) but they have broken a lot of other things.  Who says the parents are healthy, happy,wonderful people?  When the kid hurts, so do the parents - at least most of the time.  Some show it more than others.  Anyway, if there is ever a way to have a due process in this type of situation, then I would agree.  As it is right now, it comes from the school counselors, the family therapists, and other professionals such as judges and law enforcement officers and of course, the parents in total breakdown.

I keep reading about due process...can that ever really happen?  Most judges know these programs are a better alternative than juvenile jail.

[Anonymous]

No, most juvenile judges know how bad the Juvenile Justice system is.  What they don't know is these private lock-down facilities ain't any better.  After all, when was the last time you saw a juvenile judge or family court judge taking a tour of one of these teen warehouses? Second, the Juvenile Justice system does not hold kids indefinitly.  Adjudicated youth KNOW the duration of their sentence which is by far, the better deal.

 :wave:

[Deborah]

I suppose I'm cynical, but I don't think a kid could ever get a fair shake with "due process" if the parent is intent on warehousing them. It's the parent's (and program's) word against the teens. In my case, both perjured themselves.

The therapists I've encountered were too chicken shit to tell the truth to the parent. Tell the truth and you loose a paying client. One told my son- who was complaining about his dad and step-mom violating their contract agreements and the double standard- to imagine they were ants and squash them between his fingers.

The judge in our situation was swayed by the psych professionals at the program, who were swayed by my ex. They (program "professionals") labeled my son ODD "based on his father's complaints" and were not interested in hearing my view- I wasn't writing the checks. Had this facility complied with the Interstate Compact, at minimum, my son would have received a psych evaluation prior to placement, designed to determine if the placement was appropriate or necessary. Had the person conducting the "evaluation" been a reasonable human being, and known the restrictions (abuses) of the facility, I feel certain s/he would have determined the placement was too extreme and not in his best interest.

The Ed Con who refered my ex gave him the name of a facility over the phone, never even talked to my son. Knew nothing about him, as I learned in a phone conversation with her.
http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?mo ... 9&start=10
If they are allowed to refer out-of-state, they should be required to comply with the compact. It's not 'due process' but it's one more stop on the road to incarceration where a teen might encounter a reasonable human being who'll put up a stop sign.

No one in the process once questioned my ex's (or his wife's) unreasonable and irrational behavior and skewed perception. It was easier to sentence my son for the "sins of his father".  Not one of them truly interested in what was in my son's best interest. Daddy was writing the checks and everyone down the line had their hand extended and were all too willing to persecute my son based solely on his father's warped accusations.

And in defense of TheRapists. They probably see this shit everyday and try to help kids cop with ignorant parents as best they can. Unfortunately, I don't think they all know what goes on behind the walls of teen warehouse facilities they support. And there are far too few options for teens who are feared or loathed by their parents. Afterall, you can't make a parent be a 'better' parent, although it sounds like WWASP attempts to do this by going through the backdoor- hook them by taking their "trouble making" teen off their hands, then require them to attend seminars. Sounds to me like WWASP may have an equal disdain for the parents.

[Antigen]

On 2003-12-30 20:20:00, Anonymous wrote:

Most judges know these programs are a better alternative than juvenile jail.

No, most judges take it as an article of faith. But there's no basis for that belief.

Look, this nation was founded on the radical concept of rule of law, not of man. The Bill of Rights is not just a brilliant idea echoing the wisdom of centuries of civilization. It's the law.

There's only so much you can do to a minor child. You can demand that they clean their room, not talk to a particular individual or whatever. If they refuse, you can suspend priviledges, take things away, explain the importants (the old lecture torture... mwoohahahaha!) scream, yell, make threats... whatever. But you can't shackel them, drug them, deprive them of sleep, use physical pain and injury and threats of same, denial of contact with the outside world, etc. to force your will on them. If you can't do these things yourself, by our law and tradition, you cannot employ someone to do it for you.

The only means by which you can deprive an American citizen of their liberty, communication, association, religious freedom, etc., is by the legal process. You cannot hire someone to supercede these basic rights.

The right to do something does not mean that doing it is right.
--William Safire

[Antigen]

On 2003-12-30 21:29:00, Deborah wrote:

"

I suppose I'm cynical, but I don't think a kid could ever get a fair shake with "due process" if the parent is intent on warehousing them. It's the parent's (and program's) word against the teens. In my case, both perjured themselves.

No, of course you're right about this the way things are today. Over 20 years ago, though, the shrinks and schoolpeople of Dade County, Florida ran Art Barker out of the county over some of the same issues you raise. By late 1982, by some means still beyond my comprehension, my parents and Straight, Inc. were able to convince a Florida judge to initiate extradition proceedings against me for the "crime" of being a (17 & 3/4yo) runnaway in the State of Florida. This after a failed kidnapping attempt and a failed attempt at false arrest.

Things have changed. People in authority are a whole lot more inclined to believe that a kid, any kid, is pathological and in need of some kind of radical intervention.

Afterall, you can't make a parent be a 'better' parent, although it sounds like WWASP attempts to do this by going through the backdoor- hook them by taking their "trouble making" teen off their hands, then require them to attend seminars. Sounds to me like WWASP may have an equal disdain for the parents. "

Deb, I think you're dead on correct in this assessment. I'm going to repeat myself again. Why? I'm not sure. Maybe if I keep trying I'll stumble on just the right turn of a phrase or context or whatever to get this accross. Or maybe I'm just wrong and that's why it doesn't resonate. But here goes, one more time.

The worst of the worst villains in all this do not see themselves as such. They truely believe in what they're doing. This is an age old story, as there are no new ones, only minor deviations in the telling. They are zealots. They will do anything in the name of their holy higher purpose. They are no different, in my view, from the people who are lobbing bomb laden virgins at our soldiers and civilians in Iraq and Israel right now. They do not question the cause. To do so would be heresy.

If you're looking for some malevolent bad guy somewhere behind the scenes, cackling madly over how they're getting over on everyone, you'll be looking for a very long time. I haven't many like that in 3 decades of contact with the industry. I have seen plenty of narcissists, megalomaniacs and professional martyrs.

It's hard for me to explain to anyone who hasn't been a part of it. I remember, though, being caught up in the mob mentality, where druggies or anyone accused of not working their program were fair game for any kind of cruelty. If you're a true believer, that's how it goes.

If you're looking for these people to react to situations like fully aware con artists, you'll miscalculate their next move more often than not. That's why it's important.

Still, as ever, my dearest hope for families caught up in these cultish organizations is for all parties to shake it off and, in the end, choose their family over the cult. It happens that way more often than you may think.

But I haven't noticed any reliable way to make that happen. I just hope that it does in every case. More importantly, I want people in general to look and see the destructive influence that the TOUGHLOVE hategroup has had already on our society. Can you even imagine the Goose Creek SWAT raid happening in the `70's? I mean, even at Penn State, at least there was some kind of credible pretense of provocation on the part of the slain kids. But now? Just showing up to school on time and being young and black is, aparently, cause enough to fear someone enough to hold them at gunpoint with trained attack dogs.

See it, people! Please, please SEE it before it's too late to reverse this cancerous influence on our society.

I have always thought that all men should be free; but if any should be slaves, it should be first those who desire it for themselves, and secondly those who desire it for others.  Whenever I hear anyone arguing for slavery, I feel a strong impulse to see it tried on him personally.

--Abraham Lincoln

[Anonymous]

I just read an article on change and transformation in O Magazine: Here is a link to the article:

http://www.oprah.com/omagazine/200401/o ... beck.jhtml

It reminds me of my own process of change, and what I hear from students in wwasps programs.  Some never get past the first phase, because it's painful!  "Some people fight like crazy to keep their current identities from dissolving."

The full article n the magazine is a wonderful example of how parents and graduates "fly" and how they got there.

[Antigen]

Holy guacamole!!!

"Some people fight like crazy to keep their current identities from dissolving."

Well, yeah! Those would be the sane people, the ones who will fight like crazy to resist brainwashing!

This is just what I'm talking about when I say the troubled parent industry is not the whole problem. It exists, and grows, in response to a demand for their services. What the hell is wrong with us, as a society, that we seek advice for living from freaks on TV? Even AFTER they repeatedly tell us that we need to eliminate our own personalities in order to become successfull, happy Prozac poppers and chronic dieters just like them?

They used to burn witches. Today we laugh at them. Today we jail people for marijuana. Tomorrow they'll laugh at us.

--Robert "Rosie" Rowbotham

[Deborah]

So another unrelated article about how someone thinks the WWASP program works. Why do you W supporters have to resort to unrelated material to explain the W process? Ex: the Lovmour essay. If it is so wonderful and successful, why aren't  essays and kudos written about it all over the internet?

Wish I knew Martha Beck. I'd ask her if she supported the breaking down process and abuse employed by all programs. I have dicussed the methods with several PhD child psychologist who did not have a vested interest either way, and they absolutely do not support such BM methods of changing behavior.

The majority of Americans would be up in arms if they knew had any idea what actually goes on behind closed doors.

[ This Message was edited by: Deborah on 2004-01-03 16:05 ]

[Anonymous]

Here is a sampling of a few of the thousands of positive successfull stories- WWASPS SUCCESS Stories

I think you will find that these successfull families devote time and engergy to positive activites and do not have time to go to anonmous boards and post stories, not to mention new found suceess with their families and with a WWASP program but also in work, politics etc, success brings success. Plus success speaks for it self they have no need to hand out on meaningless bulletin boards. Plus they share their positive experinces I'm sure within their school board which are private boards.

Cheers  ::bigsmilebounce::  

To SUCCESS::trophy::

[Anonymous]

My Gosh - Look what you just wrote:
"Some people fight like crazy to keep their current identities from dissolving."

And WELL they Should!
What do you think is happening to you when your Identity is Dissolved?
You are given a new one of SOMEONE ELSE?S disign!
Its called Brain washing. Or Conditioning, or Programming.

Just b/c the queen of day time TV crap and pabulum touts getting rid of your Identity for a 'new and improved' model, doesn?t make it a healthy or wise thing to do!

Geez, I can hardly believe you are talking about dissolving peoples Identifies as a good thing! Its the stuff of nightmares; Orwell's big brother and animal farm come to life - and you like the sheep, or poor confused Boxer, think its a good thing!


http://denver.rockymountainnews.com/des ... rate.shtml
^explanation of the siminairs; a history lesson
http://www.rockypreps.com/desperate/sit ... ont-pg.htm
^Account of wwasp programs by RockyMt. News
http://archive.salon.com/21st/feature/1 ... ture2.html
hard hitting artical
http://www.csj.org/studyindex/studymind ... lifton.htm
Thought Reform
http://www.rickross.com/reference/brain ... ing19.html

[Anonymous]

BTW it is Seminars not siminars

[Anonymous]

Heres another:
http://www.orwelltoday.com/


You up there - saying: success speaks for it self they have no need to hand out on meaningless bulletin boards.

Well, here you are! You and your pals.
Tell us now, since you've dropped in, at what point in the Program experience are these glowing accounts written? I know the answer; I just want you to think about it a bit.
Until you understand why the answer is so significant, Get on back to the Big Bull Shit board and tell everyone how wonderful they are, and make sure to  how important it is to just Trust the Program!

[Anonymous]

Dear Spring Creek, Thank you for doing such a great job with my son. I know that he is learning much as I have. It?s a true shame the majority of our population do not see the benefit of self-help and motivational seminars. Thank you from the bottom of my heart for y our dedication to making the world a better place.
Sincerely,



Scott

   I want to thank you for making these programs possible. I have learned so much at Focus, that when I get home, I will be able to continue down this road I have started on. My sister, Terri is at your facility and I am very appreciative that she has the opportunity to learn all of this at such a young age. I really could have used something like this about seven years ago, when I was her age. Thank you once again for sharing your knowledge with me. Always,

Tracy

   Dear Becky R., Trainers, and Facility Staff, Thank you for the time you have spent coaching, inspiring and challenging our daughter, Lisa. I cannot imagine taking on this task. Thank God, you can. The hours you have spent changing her life are greatly appreciated. I have seen so much growth and change in her already. I hold on to the belief that she will come back to me as a strong, confident, happy young lady. I just finished the Focus seminar. What a powerful weekend. I feel as if I have been reborn. It is a wonderful feeling. I can?t wait to share my experience with her.

Thanks again for caring so much about Lisa. God bless you.

Fondly,



Debbie

   Dear Becky, Trainers, and Everyone at Spring Creek: Thank you for the time you?ve spent with Lisa. From the time we first talked to Becky, we knew that we were very lucky to have Lisa under your supervision. We know that it would tike a lot of work on her part, and you have willingly provided her with the training and tools. I look forward to our conversations every Tuesday. I can tell that you are all working very hard and are very dedicated to the children under your care. Rest assured that your work and thoughts, concerns and care are appreciated; and I am sure that you will reap rewards many times over! Thank you again very much

Best Regards,



Joe

   To: Spring Creek Thank you for taking such good care of my son Ryan. His Family Rep. Jon is strong, honest, and loving man to have a role model for my son. There are no accidents as we have learned in our class. My son is blessed to be at Spring Creek.

Thank you,



Krista

   Dear Cammy and Staff, I appreciate everything you do for all of these kids. I know it means so much not only to their parents or grandparents but also to them too. Doug told my parents that he was glad he got sent up there because he was not happy with his life, and it was nice to be able to change. It also means a lot to me because not I get to go through all these great seminars that make me feel like such a better person inside. I thank you greatly. Sincerely,

Alan

   Dear Facilitators of Spring Creek Lodge, My name is Pat, I am a secure, trustworthy, caring man, and it is because of you. I want to thank you for being there for my family and me. As I finish up on Focus I know that Jac is in good hands. I rest assured that after completing this program she will emerge a contributing positive force. Your efforts and care are highly appreciated by Jac?s mother and I. Your commitment is felt all the way out here in California. It is felt by reading Jackie?s letters. I am happy because I know that in time my beautiful child will be home. Thank you!!!

Patrick

   I deeply appreciate you giving yourselves to my daughter and all the children at Spring Creek. I have sent my precious gift, my daughter, to a place I have never been to. I trusted a group of people I have never met. That says a lot about each and every one of you. Any of the staff I have spoken to has projected warmth and genuine care to me, a person you have never met. My daughter has expressed ?I love ?. This person reminds me of you. That one is so funny.? She has not expressed any negative feelings. I know she is receiving warm and loving care. Be it up in her face or not. That is all warm loving care. I thank you from the bottom of my heart and all of me. I am committed to the program all the way. I thank you for helping and supporting my family thru this crisis. I acknowledge your jobs are not easy. Hugs to all. I look forward to meeting you. My experience is you are all warm loving beautiful people. Thank you. Love,

Kathy

   The day we dropped our daughter off at Spring Creek was the hardest and easiest day in my life. My Daughter has been gone for six and a half months. This time has been the most difficult time in my life and at the same time Spring Creek saved my daughter?s life. Prior to her being there she wasn?t making healthy decisions and also very disrespectful to almost everyone around her. At the same time she pretty much disliked me (mom). Now at the present my daughter actually loves me again. Through out letters and myself emailing her there has been such a tremendous change in our relation ship. I am getting my baby back. As well before she left, her manners were horrible. She now has great manners and appreciates the little things. She used to be a taker now she gives us her love. It has been so rewarding watching all those changes. If it wasn?t for Spring Creek, one only knows!! So thank you for saving my daughter? The seminars as well have changed my life and me. So I owe my life you all. Special thanks to Janet R. for all her time and her commitment to our child and her charges. Mike L. as well has been a very positive influence to our child as well. I know there must be others, but I could go on and on.

Dona

   To All of my Friends at Spring Creek: I would like to acknowledge you all for the gift you and the program are giving to my family. Right now you are giving to my son, Johnathan. But truelly you are giving to my entire family because one day John will come home to us and we will be able to continue out lives together. So I want to thank you all for the gift of my son and the future of my family. With love to you all,

Shannon

   To All of Spring Creek: When I first needed help with my son, Bart, I found you facility. We took the chance with you, but from the time we dropped him off, we had a very comfortable feeling. All of the staff work together in a way that reflects you one common goal, to help Bart and all of the other kids to the best of your ability. At PC1 when I saw Bart, I could see most wonderful changes in him. He was on his way to becoming a different person, a caring, honest, open, hardworking kid. I truly believe that you are saving his life and I would like to thank you from the bottom of my heart. I would also like to thank you for the opportunity of viewing a picture of Bart each week on the website. Bart?s smile gets bigger with each picture. Thanks again to all of you at Spring Creek. I love you all. Sincerely,

Kathleen

   Dear Staff, Thank you for being committed to save my Grandson?s futures. I am sure that you hear times over and over, and maybe some of you know from experience the feeling of gratitude. Words can never be enough to express my love for you all, so I will tell you that you are in my prayers. And ask Gods Blessing on you for all your lives.

Geri

   Dear Spring Creek Lodge Personnel, Thank you so much for having this wonderful system. Discovery and Focus, Visions, etc. I am now in Focus and want to express my undying appreciation for these programs, for us parents. The lessons I?ve learned about myself are endless and I?ll continue to Learn as I apply these principals to my life. What you?re doing is a wonderful thing and you should feel proud of yourselves for the accomplishments you make, with my child and the children of other parents. Thank you with Love,

Jon

   Gentle People ? I want to share my gratitude to and with everyone at the facility. Today I have had the most amazing experience in Focus here in San Francisco. Thank you all so much for making this whole program available to my grandson and myself. The insights I have received about relationships have given me tools to work with and think about, applying in the future. I realize how I have contributed to the fact that my grandson is in your care. By being a giver ? which I thought was loving ? only created a resentful taker ? What a wake up call that was!! I cannot buy his love. More than anything in this world, I desire a loving relationship and an honest one with my grandson. You are making this possible and I thank you all from the bottom of my heart. Thank you ? Thank you. With Love and Blessings, Hazel I am strong, loving, spontaneous woman!!!

Hazel

   Dear Staff, Four months ago I entrusted the life of my daughter into your hands. It was a leap of faith that was the hardest thing I ever did. I had to convince myself that she would be in better hands with you that in her own home. I realize that this could not happen if you didn?t care deeply about those who come to you in need. What you are doing for my daughter has no job description. It is an act of love and determination and commitment. I thank you for choosing this path in your life and I thank you for the love and caring that flows endlessly from your souls. Much love,

Annette

   Dear Staff of Spring Creek, I would like to take this opportunity to express our deepest gratitude to all of you for your part in helping to save our son and family. Every moment that we think of him we thank god that there are loving, caring, people like you in this world. We get a great feeling of comfort knowing that he is surrounded each and every day, by those of you that have dedicated your lives to helping families like us, who had a desperate need to be saved. Every one of you that we have been in contact with has helped to reinforce our very difficult decision that we had to make in order to save our son?s life. We applaud each and every one of you for your immense dedication to our son and our family. Sincerely, Fran &

Fran & Deb

   To the Staff at Spring Creek: I don?t think I can put into words how much I appreciate everything you have done for my son. The love you have shown him on a daily basis even though he has fought the love over and over again. I appreciate your strength; you constantly challenge my son to be the best Quinn that he can be. No matter how difficult this must be. I appreciate the time you have spent with my son, truly giving with this time, even when it has interrupted other activities and your own personal time. I cannot that you enough for all of this and more. I thank you for all the things you do that I don?t even know about. Thank you again,

Steve

   Dear Spring Creek, On November 7, 2002, just two months and three weeks ago, I brought my first-born child to your facility. We flew in from Chicago, Spent the night in a local motel, and drove him to you at 11:00am. Giving him up to you, holding him in my arms to say goodbye, and then turning away, walking out the door, and driving off was without a doubt the most significantly, painful experience I have ever had in my life, yet in that moment of deep pain and despair, I knew it was also the most profound, empowering moment of my life. I am out to save my child?s life and you have provided the vehicle though which I can accomplish my intention. My experience of gratitude towards you and your staff is so huge, it seems impossible. My child is safe. My child is completely surrounded by a staff that cares deeply, so deeply in fact they spend says of just ?hanging out? or having meaningful conversations with my child. I fully acknowledge that both our son's and our families? journey will be filled with many challenges and will indeed be on going, yet you have brought a grand new sense of hope into our families life. We simply cannot wait to experience, as a whole united family, the extreme joys to come. Yours in deep gratitude, Megan A.

Megan

   Wendy and I would like to express our gratitude to each of the staff for the many ways you help each day, support, nurture, and look after our daughter Lindsay. As you must know, she is a precious child of God and precious to us in so many ways. We did a lot of research, as well as praying before we sent our daughter to your school. Lindsay has been there since October 10th and we remain impressed and comfortable that Lindsay is in great hands and where she needs to be. Although we miss her, we know that she needed a change in her environment in order that her life might be saved. We are encouraged by the progress she I making, but most of all committed to seeing the program though to the end. We will be visiting Spring Creek for PC-1 in early October and look forward to seeing the facility. We will be reinforcing our exit plan, which will outlive the fact that Lindsay will not be able to return to our/her home unless she completes the program. (She turns 18 on April 21) Thank you for all your hard work and dedication. It must be quite amazing to deal with so many teens with so many issues, and quite a blessing to see so many lives transformed. We are still working on our issues! Sincerely, John &

John & Wendy

   I would like to thank everyone at Spring Creek Lodge for giving my son, David , the love and guidance he has needed over the last eight months. I am looking forward to seeing all of you at PC-1 the first week of February 2003. Until then keep unfolding all of our children.

Wade

   I now realize that the staff and students at Spring Creek Lodge are a gift to my family. Thank you for being there for me. Emily has graduated from high school and regained her enthusiasm for learning and educational accomplishments. She has tackled chemical dependency and she has stated that she does not intend to use drugs. She has graduated from Discovery, Focus, and Accountability and I know through personal experience how intimidating and rewarding these seminars can be.

Tom

   Dear Staff, We are so grateful that God lead us down a path to find Spring Creek Lodge for our Donnie. In the two short months that our son has been there, Raoul and staff have given Donnie enough ?tools? to start discovering who he is and awe have started to see the Donnie we used to know. He is writing words and feelings of love that we haven?t heard in a long time. We are always encouraged by our weekly talks with Raoul and appreciate everything that is done for our son. The WWASP has opened our eyes to being able to once again have a life as a family that we though was no longer possible. Thank you for giving us the way for Donnie and us to grow ?together.? Much love, Don &

Don & Sue

   Dear Spring Creek, I want to express to you my appreciation and gratitude to you in your care of Heather and Liz. I am their future step-dad and see such great potential in both of them. I thank you for assisting them in realizing how wonderful their lives really is and how much potential they have for greatness. You are truly a blessing that I will cherish in my heart forever. I know that your efforts will assist them in making the right choices. I am too working the program and know I am blessed for it. Thank you,

Gai

   To the Staff of Spring Creek, Everything that I experience from your facility speaks of excellence and caring. You have a very important part of me in your midst, and I know I can count on you to give him everything he needs to be successful in life. The very first experience of anyone with Spring Creek was excellent and the whole facility seems to have the same commitment. Everything you do speaks ACCOUNTABILITY. Thank you for loving my son and caring for him. He now has every opportunity to succeed. Sincerely, Keith &

Keith & Susan

   To: The Staff at Spring Creek Lodge To let you know how important it is to finally find a group of people who will not give up on my girls. I would not give up, even when their school said there was nothing they could do to help me through my troubles. I said that I will not give up, and in my anger ran across World Wide. When I called after my computer chat with Todd, I know then that the girls were going. The remarkable progress, I am seeing in their letters home, the regular appointments with their group and family leaders that they are working so hard. I have finally found something that is not just a fix for the today. Thank you so much.

Sue

   Dear Friend at Spring Creek Lodge, Words cannot adequately express the gratitude we feel for thje love and support your offer our son. We sent Justin to you because we felt unable to meet his needs and we know you are there for him ? fulfilling those needs. We know he is safe with you. We are thankful for your support and him in his quest. Although we only deal with Mary ? and we are grateful for your support of Justin and us (our family), we are equally grateful to all of the SCL staff and you each are equally essential to the whole program. With our Love and Thanks, Ed &

Ed & Caroline

   The year 2002 was a particularly dark one. Sarah continued on an almost daily basis to challenge her mother and me. There were the familiar disappointments of broken promises; failure in school and things went down hill from there. Drugs, irresponsible friends who could care less about each other, refusal to respond to parental standards and refusal to even come home for extended periods made her mother and me realize we could no longer let Sarah risk so much --- her life. We researched a number of schools and programs, but through the recommendations of World Wide and for Spring Creek Lodge, in particular, we felt we had found an environment where good help was available. Upon Sarah?s arrival we experienced a small circle of light that pierced the darkness we had been experiencing. We knew in the thirteen weeks Sarah has been at Spring Creek, that small circle of light has opened into a full field of hope for Sarah and our family. We see and hear of Sarah?s success & failures and recognize that both are valuable. Sarah is learning that both success & failure are hers and hers alone. When I a was an adolescent I experienced many of the problems she has gone through. The solution then was military school. I am so profoundly grateful to Spring Creek Lodge for the significant difference it provides compared to the military schools of the sixties. Sarah will emerge with a strong sense of accountability, responsibility and most of all how to love and support herself. With that, she will be able to love, support, and provide service to others. She may no know it yet, but these are her greatest strengths along with her leadership qualities. I thank Spring Creek Lodge for awakening her to her beauty and strength.

David

   Dear Staff of Spring Creek, Even though I don?t know so many, even most of you through person experience, I thank you for giving your time and talents to care for my son, John. The conversations I have had with Raoul and Sherri have shown me how much you are committed to having healthy relationships and you are doing all you can to assist in that process. Thank you for being there and allowing yourselves to be the instruments of growth for John. I have been so completely touched and healed by my connection with the Program. May God bless each one of you!

Becky

   Dear Spring Creek Staff, Hi, my name is Mark we have our son, Thomas, in the Respect family at you facility. We have been extremely happy with all areas of WWASP programs we have come into contact with. As my wife and I are now going through our ?Focus? seminar at SeaTac, we have been invited to let you know how much we appreciate you all and how fortunate we are that the kind of training you all provide is a godsend. It is so sad when the family unit breaks down and our most prized gifts don?t get the right kind of attention. We believe he is getting that right kind of attention now, thanks to you. Thanks to the instruction and training we have received as his parents in to only ?saving? the marriage, but helping us to be seeking excellence. Most importantly for Thomas, the same program he is receiving for you will continue when he gets home. We expect great things in out family life while better prepared to hold all of us in it accountable. Thank you again from the bottom of our hearts. I don?t plan on waiting till prompted by a seminar to make my gratitude known next time. Love,

Mark

   I am so impressed with the staff at Spring Creek Lodge. All of you are dedicated, loving people. Tyler could not be in a better place. Tyler is who he is today because of your love and caring. I know how hard your job is and how much extra time you put into making this happen. You do a great joy and what a gift you have given my family. We sent you a sick child; you not only sent back a healthy child but you helped in healing the family. You don?t just work with our children but you work with mother, father, stepmother, stepfather, brothers, sisters, grandparents and I am and sure aunts and uncle?s in some cases. WOW! I want you to stop and pat yourself of the back. It is huge, what you do. I cannot guess how many lives you touch. I am sure there is lives you help heal you do not know of. You truly have chosen the teaching profession. I also see all of you as Healers. So what can I say, but Thank You? You, all of you, are a blessing. Love,

Chalene

[Antigen]

On 2004-01-03 16:26:00, Anonymous wrote:

I think you will find that these successfull families devote time and engergy to positive activites and do not have time to go to anonmous boards and post stories, not to mention new found suceess with their families and with a WWASP program but also in work, politics etc, success brings success. Plus success speaks for it self they have no need to hand out on meaningless bulletin boards. Plus they share their positive experinces I'm sure within their school board which are private boards.

I think you'll find that, as soon as the kid feels safe from getting sent back, they'll denounce those glowing testimonials if you ask them. That's why those boards are kept private. If they let just anybody post to them, why then they'd lose the false appearance of all these happy, fulfiled and grateful graduates.

Legalizing drugs would simultaneously reduce the amount of crime and raise the quality of law enforcement. Can you conceive of any other measure that would accomplish so much to promote law and order?  
--Economist Milton Friedman

[Deborah]

***I think you will find that these successfull families devote time and engergy to positive activites and do not have time to go to anonmous boards and post stories, not to mention new found suceess with their families and with a WWASP program but also in work, politics etc, success brings success.***

What's your story? How is it that you are drawn to "anonymous, meaningless, bulletin boards? How many of those parents know such venues exist?

***Plus success speaks for it self they have no need to hand out on meaningless bulletin boards. Plus they share their positive experinces I'm sure within their school board which are private boards.***

Wasn't refering to success stories, but the intimate details of how W programs/seminars arrive at changing people. You continue to post articles, stating that "it's like this or that". Why not the genuine article. Not success stories, but details. Like, Phase One: Can not speak without permission. Can not look at self in the mirror. Can not look at or speak to the opposite sex. Can not have contact with the outside world including your family. Will have to earn such basic necessities as toileties. Will be punished with OP for minor infractions. Will be punished for crying. Will be punished for empathizing with someone who's crying. blah, blah, blah.

I'm imagining we'll have to continue to rely on "unsuccessful" ex-inmates for those details. THOSE details are what need to be evaluated. What is success? You could subject a kid ECT until they were a vegetable. Some might consider that success too, because the kid is no longer a "problem".

Dr. P is a supporter of rehab programs, and he's a behavioralist, but I've also seen him crawl all over a parent for spanking their child. I wonder how many of the daytime TV gurus would continue to support the warehousing industry if they really knew?